Firstly, hello, this is my first message, so... hi.
Honour and Justice would, I think, be Social Patterns of Quality anyway.
(And they are not insane because there is no such thing as sanity).
With regard to the Japanese on the island:
Those who run away are not acting Dynamically, they are acting biologically.
Those stay and die are acting socially, as are those who stay and then
commit suicide. If you can pre-empt a "Dynamic act", then it isn't really
Dynamic.
And (bearing that in mind) with regard to your flat:
It seems to me that your are clinging to these social qualities (" it would
be unjust for me to have anything different") when they have ceased to be of
the highest quality.
just my thoughts.
Jack
On 14/07/07, gav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> hey xavier,
>
> are honor and justice patterns? i don't think they
> are, or if they are they are very plastic ones: taking
> differing expressions in differing circumstances.
> honour and justice pertain to each unique situation,
> directly, immediately. if you are holding onto a
> static conception of honour and justice then this will
> lead to dishonour and injustice: the static strangling
> the dynamic, much like this list!!
> life should be easy even when it is hard; that is life
> becomes harder when we struggle against it. if things
> are shit at the moment accept it, learn from it and
> let it be and let it go. this is obviously easier said
> than done.
>
> to live in accord with ONE's OWN honour is the only
> true honour. no one else can tell you that you are a
> good person.
>
> when you start to get in touch with your own honour,
> your own heart, then life becomes easier: you become
> like a rock in the midst of a turbulent stream/ or
> perhaps more poetically, you cease resisting the
> turbulent stream and let it take you where it will,
> fearing not.
>
> remember wisdom lives in the heart (or heartmind), not
> in the head: "the wise man is not learned, the learned
> man is not wise." tao te ching
>
> au revoir mon ami
> gav
>
> --- XAVIER from France <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> > I have a hard life because i center my life with
> > the patterns of Honor & Justice.
> >
> > In relationships, when the other acts unfairly, i
> > need to tell it,
> > even if i know the other would be upset
> > and a lot of time, relationships breaks.
> >
> > On the opposite, i see a lot of people saying
> > untrue things, behaving selfishly
> > but they are always happy and are in good terms
> > with everyone.
> >
> > So, it is the famous distinction
> > between Classical (lovers of ideas) and Romantic
> > (lovers of society),
> > exposed in ZMM.
> >
> > In Lila, it would be expressed
> > like i stick to my intellectual pattern
> > in opposite to others who stick with social
> > pattern.
> > Intellectual patterns being on a higher level then
> > social,
> > my attitude has maybe more value except than it
> > has killed my social needs.
> >
> > What's the better atiitude for Quality ?
> >
> > Learning to do not notice unfair behaviour just to
> > keep friends ?
> >
> > Or is there a higher intellectual pattern than
> > Justice ?
> >
> > Maybe two more examples of the same kind:
> >
> > I live in a bad, bare accomodation.
> > My family and leftover friends tell me to move/buy
> > a better, bigger, accomodation and i say "No: I am
> > 30 but i am single. It's a failure for me. Thus, I
> > don't need a splendid accomodation where i should be
> > happy because i am not in the mood for that." In a
> > way, i treat me harshly but in fair way, so i can't
> > say that my life is void of any quality! There is
> > quality: no comfort, no easy life but I don't forget
> > my code of honor.
> >
> > At last, take the movie "Letters from Iwo Jima":
> > The japanese are on a lost island without any
> > military power.
> > Their command urges them to battle to gain a few
> > days for Japan.
> > So they are doomed to lose and if they lose,
> > their moral code is to commit suicide.
> > So, where is the quality:
> > those who run away? are they coward?
> > Or those who dies? are they dumb ?
> >
> > In Pirsig's view, those who run are indeed in
> > Dynamic quality
> > (and they save their organic need)
> > whereras those who stay to die are indeed too much
> > static
> > thus in a lower quality, so low that they die...
> >
> > In other words, are we insane when we do such a
> > choice:
> > Are justice, Honor traits of insanity
> > because they bring more troubles than less moral
> > attitudes ?
> >
> > All your opinions are welcomed.
> >
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