Hi Jonathan and Foci.
You wrote:
snip....
> I think that we both have a problem with MoQ having an Intellectual
> Level that is equivalent to "mind".
Right!
> My position is to accept that Intellect=Mind, and is involved in every
> manifestation of Static Patterns from PREINTELLECTUAL reality (DQ).
> Thus, intellect involves ALL paterns of all levels. This means that
> Intellect can't function as a discreet level, which is why I regard it
> as a NON-level (see earlier posts).
Making Q-Intellect a non-level sounds like rejecting it (and thus
questioning Pirsig :-)). I see your point, but will make a final
attempt to clarify my line of reasoning.
Phaedrus (of ZAMM) realized that everything is mind (from a SOM
p.o.v. At that time he knew of no other) It broke him, but he went
on to construct a new metaphysics from that realization. So, in a
SOM way, the MOQ is a metaphysics of "mind" (You will
remember that Struan with great satisfaction made a show of me
finally admitting that the MOQ is all subjectivity). But SOM is
surpassed and it's mind (that P saw contained both subject and
object) became Quality.
Conclusion: Quality is 'Mind' and as the DQ/SQ split is no
counterpart to the S/O one the static levels are 'mind' too (or
'metaphors' for that matter) but not in contrast to 'matter' (or 'non-
metaphoric'). That's the fulcrum point - nothing of SOM's da-dum is
valid in MOQ ... and it is unnecessary to introduce any extra (in
your words)....
> Intellect=Mind, ....involved in every manifestation of Static
> Patterns from PREINTELLECTUAL reality (DQ).
> Thus, intellect involves ALL paterns of all levels.
I am a bit wary of the "preintellectual" term (from the early writings
of Pirsig) because it invokes a notion of all levels having to go
through a particularly mind-intellect phase before being manifest -
even Intellect itself! THAT is exactly the initial realization of
Phaedrus and the start of his new metaphysics ...that there is no
world before it is in someone's mind (the dreaded solipsism) and if
introduced in the MOQ makes it into a SOM-moq.
> This means that Intellect can't function as a discreet level, which is
> why I regard it as a NON-level (see earlier posts).
Again, I agree .....with the above "in mind".
> In contrast, Bodvar wants to keep a discreet Intellectual level:
Right, but this is an Intellect cut down to size.
> Bodvar, you will excuse me for not dealing with other comments. I
> think that further arguments will just be more of the same . . .
I do, and thank you sincerely for addressing these fundamental
points so clearly.
Bodvar
MOQ.org - http://www.moq.org
