Maybe in some cases, the whole is more than the sum of the parts, and yet again EVEN MORE than the sum of the parts.. Textnapping would increase one kind of comprehension. But another kind of comprehention (efferent? can't quite remember) is also highly valuable and includes an emotional response. Response theory is critical here to explain books like Zen and levels of DEEP personal comprehension which cause rereading through the decades. The same person is just not the same person each time he reads and comprehends Zen. The mark of a true classic. Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
-----Original Message----- From: "Dave Middlebrook" <[email protected]> Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 17:45:29 To: Joy<[email protected]>; Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group<[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Professionalism-zmm No worries. I'm not sure exactly what I wrote that lead you to think that you were...implying something. It wasn't on my mind. Or more precisely, I think I was (and still am) thinking about what I wrote in different terms than, perhaps, you are. Because of my experience, I have a very broad notion of what it means to "comprehend". I'm used to people telling me that I "didn't comprehend" a book that we all read. Long ago I came to the conclusion that they were simply stuck inside a box -- that they were missing something. Then I tried scrolls and I realized that I had been missing something, too. I realized that I had spent a lot of time way, way, way out of the box. Now I'm comfortable in both places, but since I know that comprehension is, from a practical standpoint, meaningless if it can't be shared -- i.e., if people all look at you funny and say, "that's not the book I read" -- I prefer to use scrolls to read books that I will need to talk about with others. It keeps me in the mainstream -- or at least, it helps me quickly understand what the "mainstream" will be. Anywhere I go from there is gravy. While scrolls have helped me understand what this kind of "shared comprehension" is, and how to produce it, I have not lost my taste for venturing to the far reaches when I'm reading. So the idea that I might not have comprehended a book like Zen has a different feel to me now. Does that make sense? And yes, I'd love to scroll the book. But I have so many books that I would love to scroll....And I am so attached to the wild ride I had through those page-fragments. I wonder if my experience of the book would be ruined by the kind of focused comprehension that I can achieve on a scroll. Maybe I'm better off with the experience as it was? - Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Joy To: Dave Middlebrook ; Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:08 PM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Professionalism-zmm Dave, I didn't , mean to imply that you couldn't comprehend, was just curious if you had turned it into a scroll. Do you wonder what it would be like? I do. I even think this might be the perfect book to scroll because if I copied it I'd have nice big margins to write on! Joy/NC/4 How children learn is as important as what they learn: process and content go hand in hand. http://www.responsiveclassroom.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Dave Middlebrook <[email protected]> To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 3:58:43 PM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Professionalism-zmm No, I didn't scroll it. It's still in book form. This was long before I started scrolling my books. An interesting side effect of this is that when I tried to talk with those amongst my friends who had read it, they thought I was crazy. The book that I had read was not the book that they had read. Our comprehensions were different. But there was no grade or income at stake, so it didn't really matter. I'm happy with what I comprehended. I know that I'm more "mainstream" in my comprehension when I read a scroll, but that doesn't mean that I can't read a book and make sense of it. Sometimes the sense I make is, frankly, much more intersting than anything in the book! But I know that there is a "mainstream" comprehension that people seem to form, and I have learned how to find this. I have learned a lot about how to read bound books from reading unrolled books. I still prefer scrolls, but I am now capable of anchoring my comprehension a bit more closely to the text when I read a book that has been fragmented into pages. - Dave Now, if I had to read something today, knowing that I would need to discuss it with other people, ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joy" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group" <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 2:38 PM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Professionalism-zmm > Ah, a most treasured text, for sure! mine looks much like Dave's Zen. > > One question for Dave, you haven't turned it into a scroll? > > > Joy/NC/4 > > How children learn is as important as what they learn: process and content > go hand in hand. http://www.responsiveclassroom.org > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > To: Dave Middlebrook <[email protected]>; Mosaic: A Reading > Comprehension Strategies Email Group <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 9:00:55 AM > Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Professionalism-zmm > > And how many of us have the deceptively simple To Kill a Mockingbird, > looking much like Dave describes above, rubber-banded together to wait for > the next read? > Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Dave Middlebrook" <[email protected]> > > Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 08:55:24 > To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email > Group<[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Professionalism-zmm > > > Zen... Incredible book. I've read it with new eyes three or four times > over the decades. The margins of my copy are filled with scribbled notes > in > different inks and different handwritings. Amazing to see how my > handwriting has changed over the years! The pages are brittle, slightly > tea-colored (the acid in the paper, I'm thinking) and the dog ears are > dog-eared. Where I've run out of margin, I've got stapled bits of paper > (from the days before sticky notes). > > There are only four other books that I have worked over this intensely: > "The > Greening of America" by Charles Reich, a collection of the works of Karl > Marx, "The Marx Engels Reader", edited by Robert Tucker, Stephen Hall's > "Mapping the Next Millenium", and Rudolf Arnheim's "Visual Thinking". > I've > read lots of other books, but these five keep pulling me back. And > Pirsig's > Zen was, for me, the first book that really just stopped me in my tracks. > It is breathtaking and emotionally powerful. > > What a great thing to wake up and read Renee's post, and then to read the > nods and smiles that followed! > > Feeling good! > > - Dave > > Dave Middlebrook > The Textmapping Project > A resource for teachers improving reading comprehension skills > instruction. > www.textmapping.org | Please share this site with your colleagues! > USA: (609) 771-1781 > [email protected] > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joy" <[email protected]> > To: "Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group" > <[email protected]> > Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:13 AM > Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Professionalism-zmm > > >> Me too, thanks Renee for talking about this book, and for showing me the >> beauty of his words and thoughts. I'd even venture to say that a book >> talk >> may be in order. Anybody game? >> >> >> Joy/NC/4 >> >> How children learn is as important as what they learn: process and >> content >> go hand in hand. http://www.responsiveclassroom.org >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: thomas <[email protected]> >> To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group >> <[email protected]> >> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 2:40:08 PM >> Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] Professionalism-zmm >> >> I am just going to finally have to read it! Too many people I admire >> have >> loved it over and over. >> >> sally >> >> >> On 6/19/09 10:39 AM, "Renee" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Funny. I was at our local espresso place yesterday having lunch and my >>> copy was on the table. The owner was wandering around, spied the book, >>> and asked, "How many times have you read this, now?" I thought it was >>> pretty funny that he automatically assumed I was rereading it. He said >>> he hadn't read it for about twenty years and that it might be time to >>> reread. He also recommended a book by Buckminster Fuller, called >>> Critical Path, which he said he has read several times. I haven't >>> checked that out yet. >>> >>> Anyway, for those who don't know ZMM, yesterday I read the part about >>> how Phaedrus experimented in his university writing class by giving no >>> grades until the end of the semester, how students reacted to that, and >>> his assertion that we, including students, already know what quality is >>> even if we can't define it, and that the writing process itself is more >>> important than knowing the rules about writing. And how this is all >>> wrapped up together. >>> >>> Sound familiar? >>> >>> Renee >>> >>> >>> On Jun 19, 2009, at 10:23 AM, [email protected] wrote: >>> >>>> In a message dated 6/19/2009 12:53:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >>>> [email protected] writes: >>>> >>>> Right now, I am rereading Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, >>>> which is more about teaching than it is about motorcycles. Or Zen. Or >>>> Art. >>>> You addicted me to that book!!!! >>>> I would say it is much about life! >>>> >>>> Nancy >>> >>> "El fin de toda educacion debe ser seguramente el servicio a otros." >>> ~ Cesar Chavez >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Mosaic mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >>> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. >>> >>> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mosaic mailing list >> [email protected] >> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. >> >> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mosaic mailing list >> [email protected] >> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to >> http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. >> >> Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Mosaic mailing list > [email protected] > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > _______________________________________________ > Mosaic mailing list > [email protected] > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mosaic mailing list > [email protected] > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > _______________________________________________ Mosaic mailing list [email protected] To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. _______________________________________________ Mosaic mailing list [email protected] To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. _______________________________________________ Mosaic mailing list [email protected] To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
