gav 'n' cal wrote:
> David Tenser wrote:
> >> Any color as long as it's black. BUT YOU CAN USE ALL KINDS OF
> >> DIFFERENT SKINS!
> >>
> >> Oh, well, not really, something like a grand total of SIX at last
> >> count [snip]
> >
> > Yeah, I was amazed by the fact that Mozilla have been around for several
> > (?) years, and there's only like five skins available. And as you point
> > out, few are viable alternatives to the two main skins.
>
> IIRC, skinning was first "switched on" in something around about
> Milestone 16/17, which was about 18-20 months ago. Since then, the
> skinning API has been constantly changing (which is why skins for
> Netscape 6.0 don't work on 6.1, Moz 0.8 skins don't work on 0.9.7, etc,
> etc.) This means that creating a skin is only part of the battle.
> You've also got to keep it up-to-date. (Respect to those who manage it:
> this means YOU, Mr Kayser) As such, there have even been some people
> within the project _discouraging_ the development of skins.
>
> The plan is to freeze the API for 1.0, meaning that skins will keep
> working, rather than having to be updated for every release.
If that is the case, I can understand the lack of usable skins. However,
my main point was that I'd like to see customizable toolbars. I think
that's more important than a solid API for skins.
> > Anyway, I can't complain much about standard-compliance with Mozilla,
> > aside from trivial issues such as favicon.ico.
>
> Favicons have little to do with standards - they're an "extra". They
> also cause some heated debate. Be glad you missed the threads a month
> or two back.
I guess I should. :) Although I like discussions.
> > But Mozilla is going nowhere on the Windows platform as long as they
> > don't also focus on the UI and associated functionality.
>
> It's happening, but some people seem to expect it to leap, fully-formed,
> into existence. Try going and downloading (say) mozilla 0.9, and giving
> that a whirl. Observe the downright sluggish UI. Then tell me there's
> no progress.
I don't expect this to happen over night. I just wanted to post this
about the toolbars bacause I think it would make the program more
attractive to the average user. I really do believe that. They should
focus more on such "trivial" things (as I'm sure they view it).
> >>> because the only thing they seem to be doing is ignoring suggestions
> >>> like this one, and fixing trillions of bugs.
> >>
> >> Well, and adding more bugs, according to the stratospheric bug count
> >> numbers in bugzilla.
>
> This has been said before, but it always needs saying: the raw bug
> count in bugzilla is not a measure of much at all. Many of them are
> duplicates[1], many are enhancement requests, of varying degrees of
> sanity[2], many are less than useful ("my browser crashed").
Yes, you are right about that. Many bugs are dupes. And many users don't
know how to write a good report.
> [1] anyone who wants to help thin THEM out, please do
> [2] "mozilla needs to make my bed in the morning", "mozilla needs a
> kitchen sink", Mozilla needs to make coffee". At least one of those is
> really in bugzilla.
The kitchen sink, right? :)
> > I was in fact going to say that too, but I stopped myself because in
> > the end I didn't want to upset dedicated Mozilla lovers :) You are
> > absolutely right. There are so many bugs, and many of them have been
> > there for far too long. I have actually reported one bug myself
> > (124703), and only one day after that, over 50 more bugs was reported.
>
> In the 11 days since the release of 0.9.8, there have been approx 2200
> bugs entered into bugzilla. We can't get to them all instantly.
I understand that. But isn't that one h*ll of a lot of bugs in one program?
> > One week later, my bug is still unconfirmed...
>
> Five days later, I'd confirm it if I could reproduce it. It may be
> WinXP only, which narrows down the field of testers somewhat. Thanks
> for a sane-and-sensible bugreport though.
You're welcome. It's funny, after mentioning the bug report here, things
have started to happen! Thanks Jonas J�rgensen for confirming the bug.
> >>> Is it someone in this newsgroup that agrees with me, or am I just
> >>> being very negative at the moment?
> >>
> >> You are 100% dead-on brother.
> >
> > I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one. I hope that someone highly
> > involved in the Mozilla project gets to read this too, although I
> > doubt it will make a difference.
>
> There are such people around. As to how much difference it will make...
... we can only hope.
/ David
