I appreciate Terry Matula's comment about studies that
look at change orders and cost overruns on "les
grandes projets" such as LRT. Excuse my French but
they remind me of Francois Mitterand' grand projects
in Paris.
I pretty regularly scan the items on the Ways and
Means Committee agenda every other week and am struck
by the number of change orders I see in construction
of the Convention Center addition. The majority seem
to add cost while a few remain neutral. None it seems
lower the cost though of that I cannot be certain.
I understand that a certain amount of that must occur
and that provision for that is built into estimates.
I broached this subject last summer in a conversation
with Lyall Schwarzkopf who was Mayor Fraser's city
coordinator and who was there during the construction
of the existing convention center. He spoke highly of
the oversight of the project coordinator (I think that
was the title)and said that was the key.
I worry about this new addition but then its my nature
when I'm not in control or at least privy. Information
is the real power.
This past summer I was speaking to an employee of
GMCVA who was working the information booth(I wish I
could remember her name. She lived up on Cleveland I
think it was and as we were talking about the
Kondirator and the $8.5 million settlement she leaned
close to me conspiratorally and said "I think it was
all about greed" which i took to be an anti-semitic
comment but then I'm pretty sensitive to that
stuff)when a man approached and wondered if there were
any place available to him in the center where he
could plug in his laptop and do some work between
meetings. He was left to return to his hotel as there
was no place.
I'm not certain if that situation arose because when
the CC was built there was no need for such an amenity
or it was an oversight or it was one of those things
that could not be anticipated given the mercurial
evolution of technology or it was one of those things
that fell victim to budget cuts to keep the project
cost in line which often happens.
The best case of scrimping for the sake of a budget
was that plastic bag of a Metrodome which went without
air conditioning for how many years because it was so
important to bring the project in on time and under
budget. There were practically banner headlines saying
"Metrodome only costs $55 million."
My response at the time was "yeah, and I can see why"
as I rode my butt down the steps from the top of the
stadium, sure I was about to faint, fall and fly off
the deck and land on home plate from the steepness of
the incline. And then each time I forced 15 people to
stand as though they were performing a mini-wave so I
could get to my seat in the middle of a row, I praised
the cost savings. It was(is) the best mediocre stadium
in the big leagues and all for $55 million.
I come from the school that if you're going to do a
job, do it right. For that reason I would say "if we
must have this cockamamie LRT line down Hiawatha we
ought to have a pier bridge at Lake Street and figure
out a way to bring the train all the way to First
Avenue whatever the cost. If this train stops in front
of City Hall and the Hennepin County offices it is an
even dumber plan than I already think it is.
Tim Connolly
Ward 7
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Studies have been done by federal and state
> agencies, colleges, universities, and industry
> publications involved in design and construction
> that peg averages for change orders
> and cost overruns in all types of construction
> initiatives. It has been a while since I read much
> of the statistical detail, but this much I recall --
> transportation
> projects, and most especially rail based projects --
> racked up the highest percentages in cost overruns.
>
> Examples: LA's Blue Line cost rocketed from $194 to
> $890 million --- Buffalo's $24 million forecast
> hemorrhaged to $552 million --- and Miami / Dade
> County LRT costs went
> from $100 million to $1.5 billion. The Orange
> County Transportation Authority had been promising
> for months that a 28 mile system would not cost more
> than $1 billion. Last
> fall Authority officials were still touting the cost
> at "only" $1.3, while independent estimators pegged
> the deal in excess of $2 billion. Dallas area DART
> was scaled back by
> two-thirds from its original scope, yet tax rates
> remained the same as promised for the larger system.
> Construction costs almost tripled (from $17 million
> to $45 million per
> mile) for the first 20 mile leg.
>
> This much I am certain of -- no one can guarantee
> the final rail project costs. It is the nature of
> almost everything writ large with public funds ---
> highways, bridges, rail
> systems, busways, water and sewer works, big
> stadiums --- that these types of big impact projects
> incur significant changes in scope and cost. It is
> unavoidable. The
> question ought to be --- why undertake anything with
> a 30 year track record of failure to begin with, the
> worst in the entire construction industry --- and at
> the same time
> risk realistically uncontrollable cost overruns?
>
> When it's all said and done, the Star will do an
> investigative story and discover that the Hiawatha
> line has really cost taxpayers a minimum of an
> additional $150 to $250
> million more than projected in the funding
> application to the Federal Transit Authority. If
> anybody cares to keep this posting, and contact me
> when it's done, I'll buy them
> lunch or dinner if I'm wrong.
>
> Yes, I'd agree that most every elected official
> involved, and dozens of community activists have
> gone out of their way to do what they believe is the
> right thing and in the
> best interests of the citizenry and the city.
> Unfortunately, these same officials are riding a
> horse no one knows how to control. The LRT
> stations, the WALL, Martin Sabo's
> $60 million federal gift, the lawsuit with Excel --
> the die is already cast.
>
> The 1st big mistake -- they all saddled up the wrong
> horse.
>
> Warm Regards -- Terry Matula -- Hastings, MN
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sheila Delaney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>@mnforum.org on
> 04/05/2001 06:21:26 PM
>
> Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> cc: Bruce Gaarder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Mpls] RE: Met Council $ for 28th
> Street LRT Station
>
>
>
>
> The cost goes up by $2.9 million.
>
>
> You know, there is a lot of sarcasm on this list and
> very little
> appreciation for the good that does get done in our
> City/County/Region.
>
> I am the first to say that we all have to hold our
> Representatives
> accountable at all points. Clearly in this case,
> there were MANY
> TERRIBLE MISTAKES made and this certainly angers me
> as both a
> neighborhood organization director and an active
> resident of Minneapolis
> (10th Ward). I also know that City Council Members
> are taking these
> mistakes very seriously and will work to make sure
> that they don't
> happen again- especially if we all insist on it and
> support the work
> needed to make these good intentions mean something.
>
> Please know that I am NOT defending any agency
> involved in this issue. I
> do however want to say that the more I learn about
> this issue the more
> complicated the storyline about who's to blame and
> who's not to blame
> becomes. I am tired of seeing off the cuff
> assumptions posted on this
> list without background information. It is easier
> to be a mpls issues
> ranter than to really learn about what is going on.
>
> What is NOT complicated is that a WALL taller than
> both the Berlin Wall
> and The Great Wall of China cannot be constructed at
> Lake and Hiawatha.
> I am very happy to see public entities partnering to
> assume
> responsibility for the chain of mistakes that lead
> up to the idea of the
> WALL even being entertained. This is good.
>
> Yes, we are all aware of the Sabo money and most of
> us would prefer to
> see the funds for solving this situation come from
> sources other than
> City MSA funds which is where 1/2 of the money for
> fixing the mistake
> will probably come from.
>
> But, it doesn't look like that can happen for many
> reasons. This is the
> reality because at this point time is running out.
>
> Hopefully everyone involved in this issue will take
> measures to assure
> that this never happens again but the reality is
> that the communities
> immediately impacted by this issue need to know that
> the Wall will not
> happen. I am very pleased and very THANKFUL for the
> work that is being
> done by community members AND elected/Appointed
> officials to fix this
> absurd situation.
>
>
> I also want to raise a point that I have not heard
> yet-
>
> The question of whether or not the Community was
> able to "weigh in" on
> this issue before the HPO decide to allow the change
> from a pier
> structure to a WALL is not the question to ask.
>
> The question is why would stewards of the projects ,
> the engineers etc,
> have to ask the community if it did or didn't want
> to see a 1000 ft
> wide and 30 foot tall wall placed in between its
> neighborhoods? Come on!
> To constantly say that "they should have asked us"
> takes away the
> responsibility that these people have to make good
> decisions. When a
> project is funded by public funds the first
> evaluation of a decision
> must be: "first do no harm."
>
> This is what is hardest to understand about this
> situation. How people
> could have sat in a room and decided that building
> this WALL that would
> in effect ruin any possibility of connection and
> redevelopment in the
> Hiawatha and Lake area and would actual have
> created a canyon primed
> for crime and litter etc JUST TO SAVE $800,000? This
> is the question we
> should really be asking.
>
> My bottom line and the bottom line of the
> communities most immediately
> affected is that the WALL concept has to go and I
> appreciate the work
>
=== message truncated ===
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