----- Original Message ----- From: "robert martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 7:05 PM Subject: Re: MPD: What will the war against Iraq cost Minnesotans?
> Only God knows what the war will cost, since full-scale hostilities have not > yet begun... > > I know I will sleep much better, once Saddam Hussein is dead, or gone... JSK - Perhaps; but I would sleep even better if the world's biggest terrorists, and the nation's biggest threat to freedom are gone: Cheney, Bush, and their group of gangsters. (Disclaimer - I mean through elections or impeachment. Did anyone hear the story about the guy in New Mexico who got arrested for denouncing Bush on the internet?) > His > acts of systematic genocide against the Marsh Arabs will finally be halted, > too late to prevent the desecration of the Marshlands of Lower Mesopotamia, > and the destruction of a unique culture that had lasted over five millennia. > > I've never understood why our enviro wackos didn't try to do something... > Guess they didn't want to be seen agreeing with George W. Bush on > ANYTHING... And, of course, it would have undermined the scheduled protest > efforts. JSK - Who believes for a second that this is a motivation by the Cheney-Rumsfeld regime for invading Iraq. The U.S. provided Iraq with billions of dollars in military and economic support during the 1980s. And what will thousands of bombs with depleted uranium do to the environment? > > The Kurds in northern Iraq are "the world's largest ethnic group without a > country, and the most victimized sector of Iraqi society", according to > Robin Wright, LA Times. These Kurds have every intention of reclaiming the > city of Kirkuk from the Sunni Arabs that were moved into the city by Saddam > Hussein, after he had forced the Kurds to leave. The Kurds will probably > also exercise control of the large oil fields surrounding the city. JSK - It is unlikely that the Cheney regime will allow anyone but their oil buddies to control the oil fields if they are successful in an invasion. Bush, Sr, of course sold the Kurds out hugetime after the 1991 Iraqi invasion. They could have gotten rid of Saddam back then by backing the Kurds but are more afraid of any popular movement taking over Iraq and its oil than Saddam staying in power. So they pulled out the rug and let Saddam slaughter them. If any Kurds control the anything this time, they will make sure they are CIA plants. > > This will undoubtedly cause many problems for the French engineers and > production managers employed by Elf Aquitaine, the large French petroleum > company with the (formerly) lucrative oil contracts with Saddam Hussein. I > doubt the Kurds will honor these contracts, or that they'll even want the > Frogs around... What do you think? > > Of course, we all understand that these lucrative contracts between Saddam > Hussein and Elf Aquitaine, the 7th largest petroleum country in the world, > had absolutely nothing to do with the French betrayal of British and > American interests in the Security Council this past two weeks... Everyone > knows the Americans want the oil, not the French... right? Undoubtedly the French have their economic interests. But the Cheney doctrine in that U.S. oil interests and militaristic expansion trump all other interests, ranging from innocent human life to world stability. > > I think Minnesotans should be very proud of the consistent stance our > country is taking in this impending police action. I believe the past few > weeks have redefined our world, and I support my president's position, JSK - you are of course entitled to your opinion (and the government is sure to respect that if you agree with them), but how could you arrive at such a conclusion? This government's stubborn aggression appears to be the biggest historical disaster for this country's international standing. It has set this country apart as a rogue bully that is singlehandedly destroying any chance for international rule of law in a volatile world, and is inciting unprecedented hatred against us by people around the world. > as do > our armed forces... > what is your basis for asserting that members of the armed forces support the president, beyond their legal obligation to follow orders? has there been a reliable poll? For those naive enough to buy the propoganda now, most of their opinions are certain to be changed in the years to come. At the least, the incidence of Gulf War syndrome will be highly multiplied this time around given the amount of bombs to be dropped (with presumably depleted uranium) and the far greater numbers of troops on the ground. The truth will inevitably force most troops to come to terms with how badly they were fooled and their lives were played with to serve the evil and cynical agendas of the cowards ruling this country. > One other point... If "Minneapolis and St. Paul alone" comprise two-thirds > of our state's population, then Andy Driscoll is hiding a hell of a lot of > undocumented illegal aliens in his basement... :>) > JSK - This comment should speak for itself. Jordan Kushner, in Golden Valley > Bob Martin, in Bethel > > > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Andy Driscoll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Peace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,MN Politics Discuss > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,National Politics > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"St. Paul Discuss" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"St. Paul Greens" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,Minneapolis Issues <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: MPD: What will the war against Iraq cost Minnesotans? > Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 14:36:57 -0600 > > Some have posted concerns that the Iraq war is not a state or local issue. > If you live in either of the cities, do your own math about your proportion > of loss. The cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul alone comprise two-thirds of > the state's population and three-quarters of its education, public safety > and human services needs. > > Now do you believe local officials should ignore this war? Can any of us > afford it? Go on up to the link. > > (Thanks, Yusef Mgeni) > > Andy Driscoll > Saint Paul > -------- > What does it matter to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless whether the > mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy > name of liberty or democracy? � Mahatma Ghandi > > ---------- > Taxpayers in Minnesota will pay $1.493 billion for a potential invasion of > Iraq. For the same amount of money, the following could have been provided: > > 28,216 Elementary School Teachers > > or > > 6,636 Fire Trucks > > or > > 222,603 Head Start Places for Children > > or > > 459,612 Children Receiving Health Care > > To find out more or to take the challenge yourself, go to the following web > site. . . > > http://database.nationalpriorities.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/NPP.woa/wa/tradeof > f > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > MN-POLITICS-DISCUSS http://www.e-democracy.org/mn-politics/ is a CIVIL > discussion of Minnesota public issues and politics. > ----------------------- > > > **** Don't like E-Democracy's rules? You have alternatives: > http://www.e-democracy.org/mninteract **** > ---------------------------- > > Messages (text-only, no attachments) are to be signed with your full real > name, city and e-mail address. 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