Scott Persons wrote: I think it's a universally accepted notion that more ramps bring more traffic, the 28th street ramp is designed to offload the pass-thru traffic (cars and trucks) directly to 28th rather than having to traverse two lights (Lake and 31st) and then go to 28th street.
David Piehl writes: Shame on me for suggesting that $160 million is an excessive method of avoiding two traffic lights.... Scott Persons wrote: I would agree with David's assertion about this being disruptive if 28th was a two way street. Thankfully it is not, the part of 28th street where the ramp leads to is very commercial, not residential (Abbott, the Sears site, Wells Fargo, etc.). Rhetorically David's argument is clever but it just doesn't stand up to the reality of the situation. David Piehl writes: Truck traffic is disruptive no matter where they will be. I travel on the frontage road each morning that connects with 28th Street, and there are already traffic backups as cars arrive at the 28th St Wells Fargo ramp; I predict future backups onto the freeway. Claiming that the area along 28th street is not residential in nature is untrue. From 5th Ave all the way to Hiawatha, with the exception of the "Sears Block", is all primarily residential - including the multi-million dollar new housing development adjacent to the Wells Fargo site. This would be a case of potential capital investment jeopardizing existing capital investment. In light of that fact, Scott's argument is simply false. Scott writes: While I am always impressed to hear how many classes and experience people have I wonder how David reconciles his study and real world experience with all the small business and corporate support for this project in the affected areas. Why do businesses want this infrastructure investment and the learned and experienced Mr. Piehl rejects it? Businesses want this project because it brings more customers to the area so they can grow and invest in their businesses, they believe it will make their business better. David responds: In response to your attempt at character assasination, I am VERY familiar with small businesses, because I'm a partner in one. I'm also working on forming another partnership for a small business, and had hoped that this entertainment-oriented business could be located somewhere on East Lake Street; the entrepreneurs I'm working with dismissed that notion out of hand when they learned about "the 8 lanes of Lake Street" that the Access Project includes; it's so pedestrian unfriendly that it will kill businesses, according to my potential partners, and I have to conceed that they are right. We're now looking at a location in NE Minneapolis. As far as businesses wanting the plan - I know many supported the initial concept, but relatively few support the current version, it is too destructive. Basim Sabri and the owner of the Office Max strip mall support it, but they are not small busninesses, they are landlords; it's a different set of concerns. Again, bringing traffic into an area doesn't mean you are bringing "customers" into an area. Why did the West Broadway Target fail even though they have freeway access?? Scott wrote: I love the hyperbole but a ramp is an apple and a nuclear reactor is an orange any way you slice it. David clarifies: Exactly, which is why you don't automatically assume or conclude that capital investment is a good thing; often it does damage to the people who can least afford it, and benefits moneyed interests - just as it does in this case for Wells Fargo and Allina. Scott Persons wrote: This infrastructure upgrade makes our area businesses more competitive on the whole by making them more accessible. By making our businesses more competitive, we increase their profitability and their tax contributions and employment capacity grow. Pretty simple stuff really, but I haven't taken any graduate courses. David Piehl writes: That is clear; your comments paint an overly simplified and unrealistic version of economics, all based on your unsubstantiated assumption that extra traffic is a good thing, an assumption urban planners across the country would certainly dispute. A major change in freeway access is not the panacea you describe. Scott Persons wrote: I just listen to successful people rather than trying to preach to them. David writes: I haven't noticed. David Piehl Central __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com TEMPORARY REMINDER: 1. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. 2. If you don't like what's being discussed here, don't complain - change the subject (Mpls-specific, of course.) ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
