Message: 4
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:30:41 -0600
From: "Michael Atherton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [Mpls] FW: Global education
John O'Neal originally wrote:
- - - - - - Please do not attempt to destroy opportunities for others
who may have different views.
Michael Atherton wrote:
Does this last statement imply that I am attempting to destroy
opportunities for others who have different views? - - - - - -
John O'Neal's reply:
The comment was actually directed to the opinions expressed in your
attached materials. Due to space limitations, I did not replay all of the
quotes. I will confine replies to requoted materials to reduce the chance
of misunderstanding.
John O'Neal originally wrote:
- - - - - - I was pleased that my children were able to pursue critical
thinking on an International basis.
Michael Atherton wrote:
Why should critical thinking "on an International basis" be limited
to magnet programs? I would expect that any quality secondary education
curriculum would teach such skills. I don't think that it is critical
thinking that is the issue here, rather it is the acceptance of
particular political axioms and agendas.
John O'Neal's reply:
As I understand them, Magnet programs extensively concentrate on the
field of study selected. I did not have any experience with the teaching
in other Magnet programs. I assume that there was not the same amount of
time devoted to critical thinking on an International basis in other
programs. The goal of Magnet programs was to help each student excel in
their or their parents chosen course of study.
In our household, we discussed lessons and teachings at school.
There was no danger of my children accepting an unreasoned political
axiom or agenda. They were allowed to disagree with me if they had a
reasoned argument.
John O'Neal originally wrote:
Their final exams were graded by educators in Singapore and other
participating countries. A truly world class education AND evaluation.
Michael Atherton wrote:
Why is this important and how does it insure a world class
education?
John O'Neal's reply:
Nothing assures any kind of educational opportunity. In any program,
the student needs to learn more than is available in any class. If the
grading of international students exams occurs in international settings,
there is a better chance that a successful exam with be up to world
standards. There is never a guarantee.
Michael Atherton wrote:
- - - - - -The only evidence that you have provided is that one of your
children got into a good college (I am assuming that she was admitted
into an undergraduate program...right?). Is this because of the
International Baccalaureate program at Henry or just because your
daughter is very bright?
John O'Neal's reply:
Actually, all of my children are very bright. So were their class
mates in IB. All of my children and most of their class mates went to top
colleges all over the nation. The IB program did not make any of them
bright. It did provide them with excellent skills for advanced learning.
I suspect that many of them may have dropped out of school if they had to
take standard classes. Too boring.
When I joined the U.S. Navy, I pledged to defend the Constitution.
The Constitution is the basis for the Republic that is symbolized by the
flag. Many parents want their children to just learn the symbols. As a
Viet Nam veteran, I do not accept that any group elected or appointed
will defend the U.S. Constitution. IB programs were the best choice for
my children.
Michael Atherton wrote:
Since I have been posting to the list, I have tried to emphasize
that the Minneapolis Public Schools should not be judged by the successes
of individual students, but rather by measures that indicate the success
rates of all students. THAT is social justice, a primary tenet of the
International Baccalaureate program. However, I do understand why parents
whose children are successful in these programs fight to protect them and
why they might not be concerned about students who are less successful.
Without special programs many parents would be forced to move to the
suburbs or pay for private schooling. Profess global thinking, act
locally.
I believe that vouchers or quality public schools are the only ways to
avoid this hypocrisy.
John O'Neal's reply:
There are only individual students. They are each a person with
different goals, interests, and learning styles. It is hard to reach
those individuals if there are more than 18 to 20 per class. It is hard
to challenge those individuals if the teachers only see them once a week
or once a month. It is hard for students to learn if they are too tired
or too ill to concentrate.
The most prominent hypocrisy in the Minneapolis Public Schools is
the Zero Tolerance Policy. Authorities expel students for skipping
school. Authorities expel or suspend students for nearly any infraction.
Even the brightest child can not learn if they are not at least exposed
to teaching. There must be discipline but something more productive than
expulsion or suspension.
There is room for improvement in all teaching curriculum. That is a
universal statement that will probably always be true. Universal health
care, good nutrition, parents who can get by with one job, small classes,
and warm dry homes are also part of the path to successful public school
test scores. Vouchers and even unrecognized quality public schools will
not bridge those gaps.
Thanks.
John O'Neal
Shenanigans Watch
Holland Neighborhood
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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