Mr. Gaarder was quick to point out my lack of expertise in transit issues but was not able to list a twelve mile stretch of track (or roadway) that has greater potential than the Hiawatha Line - and please include all of the costs and benefits, not just the initial construction financing. Do a twenty year cost projection comparison, and include the likely cost of gasoline and it's related subsidies ten twenty years out. I stand by my opinion that The Hiawatha Line is a bargain. Dan McGuire Ericsson
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Gaarder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2004 10:46 AM Subject: [Mpls] lrt costs, delays, potential > Dyna tries to refute my statement that running or not running the train for a > few months doesn't have anything to do with the capital costs since that > money has been spent and there will be no excess of income over expenses > to go towards the capital costs, interest on same, or whatever. She uses an > example of how stupid a person would be too buy something and not use it. > > But we aren't talking about a person using their own funds, it's the government > using our funds. If Dyna wants to argue that it shouldn't have been built, > I'll agree with her. But it's built and for every dollar taken in in fares > once it starts running, we will spend three dollars. That's the goal for lrt > hereabouts. The same goal is dreamed of in the University Avenue train. > Replace one of the two or three highest fare recovery bus lines with a train > that at best recovers 1/3 of it's expenses. > > Dan McGuire thinks that hiawatha will be one of the most successful transit > projects in the country, if not the world. It's good that he qualifies that > with the statement that he isn't a transit expert because it is way off the > mark. It will be in the middle of the pack of wasteful U.S. lrt projects > in farebox recovery. > > Los Angeles, the most densely populated urbanized areas, has been adding > what they call Rapid Lines. Along Wilshire Boulevard, the Rapid Line > cut transit travel speed by about 25% and increased ridership by 29% in > less than four months at a cost of $200,000 per mile plus the cost of buses > which are about $330,000 each. > > What are the measurements of success? Burning a lot of tax dollars on a > status symbol? I don't have time today to give you a lot of examples, but > you should look at the first San Diego trolley. Speed? Overall speed will > be no more than 22 mph, according to the schedules published in the effort to > railroad it through. Downtown, you might be able to jog from the metrodome > to the warehouse district faster. > > Look also at what goes on in the rest of the world. Visit > http://www.demographia.com/rac-ix.htm for a sample. > > > Visit www.EffectiveTransit.org > > The Independent Unsubsidized Voice of > Citizens for Effective Transit in the Twin Cities (no lrt) > > * lrt isn't a potato chip, you can stop at just one * > > Bruce Gaarder > Highland Park Saint Paul MN > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > REMINDERS: > 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. > 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. > > For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html > For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract > ________________________________ > > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy > Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
