On 8/17/04 12:44 PM, "WizardMarks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> phaedrus wrote: > >> In San Francisco, I've heard estimates that at any given time, there are >> 10,000 more cars in the city than total parking spots. In Boston, New York, >> and even Madison, many people don't even bother owning a car. >> > WM: Boston, NYC, etc. have better approaches to mass transit. They are > also much "older" sites for cities. They were figuring out "mass > transit" when it was a bunch of people on a cart pulled by oxen, and the > really mass transit consisted of human feet. > When MN became a state, railroads were already common east of the > Mississippi (and South of ...) Personal transport was a necessary goal > outside the limited city ( 24th St. on the Southside was the city > limit). Lake St. wasn't incorporated till the late 18-early 1900s. The > city grew up with personal transport as a paramount focus for most. > And Lake Street, by the time it was incorporated, sold cars...and fixed > cars...and resold cars...and had Porky's on Friday nights to show off > cars and compare cars. Personal transport that was not one's feet is > part of the fabric of this place. In places as old and densely packed as > NYC or Boston, both seaports, one an island, mass trans was the solution > brought forward early. > Railing against the culture of the place you have come to probably > doesn't work. This place being the place we came to, we may have to > compromise with the extant culture. Dominant Culture Americans haven't > been very good at that so far; I'm not entirely hopeful. Wizard makes great points about Boston and New York predating much of our car culture. But Jason makes a great point in mentioning Madison, which hardly has the history, climate or geography of our East Coast cities, yet still has managed to develop in such a way that makes owning a car less of a necessity than it is around here. Another good example of that is Portland, OR. Heck, even Houston, TX has shown a willingness to invest in an extensive rail network. If Texans can embrace getting around without a car, I think Minnesotans can, too. It's examples like those that leave me a little more hopeful than Wizard might be. It's also important to note that much of what makes up our car culture is not really that old. Think back even 20-30 years ago when there were such things as neighborhood grocery stores as opposed to the big 60,000+ square foot supermarkets that dominate our culture today. I remember as a kid, walking about 8 blocks with my mom and sister to the old Country Club Market on Central Ave. One of the things I've enjoyed most since the Eastside Food Coop opened on that site is now I can do that again instead of having to drive somewhere to get groceries. Mark Snyder Windom Park REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract ________________________________ Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
