Ed Felien writes:

"But, if I may tempt effrontery to the point of arrogance and try to further
decipher Wizard Marks' mind, I think the basic argument she is making is the
one first posited by Susan Brownmiller in Against Our Will.� That ovacular
work (seminal seems out of place) defines rape as standing between theft and
assault.� It may be the work Mr. Kahn was so disparagingly referring to when
he talked of outdated feminist notions.

"Does that help?"

Bill Kahn gives up:

Yes, Brownmiller's work has colored the way many people view phenomena of 
sexual coercion flying in the face of what is ultimately going on. Proximately, 
a 
man or woman who has been raped may feel bolstered by such views, as in going 
to church or praying to make the best of a bad lot, but it explains nothing 
to say that "rape is about power" over and over again. We have laws against 
rape because societal norms preclude these behaviors more and more, but 
whatever 
perverted ideology rapists and rape scholars espouse, it is behavior that 
springs from billions of years of evolution. I tend to disparage work that has 
no 
basis in fact, and, unfortunately, the field is full of it.

The book I cited looks at the phenomena across many species of animals. For 
Orangs, rape is pretty much normal mating; a big male maintains a territory and 
jumps any female in estrous on encountering her within it. Langurs and other 
primates essentially do the same, sometimes murdering any offspring a female 
might have with her who are unlikely to be his offspring (Remind you of any 
crimes committed by step parents?). In the Chimpanzee and Benobo (the great 
apes 
thought to be most similar to us) mating is different still. In the former, 
closely related males lord over females that stumble into the groups as they 
travel through territories feeding. In the latter, sex would seem to be less 
focused on mating than as a socializing exercise similar to grooming in other 
species of apes, baboons, and monkeys.

My point was simply that we have behavioral drives that are not rational, but 
can be controlled through reason, provided you don't fill the minds of folks 
with all manner of irrelevant tripe about sexual behavior. Looking at 
prostitution, rape, and other aberrant behavior in terms of evolutionary 
biology can 
help one to sort out truth from fancy in scholarly works on the subject.

I certainly did not mean to trivialize the experience and knowledge of any 
men or women on this list, only to focus it on the ultimate reasons that rape 
is 
prevalent today and may never be rare unless we realize as a society that 
such behavior is coded in our human genome. There are roles for all of us to 
make 
the act as much as a hypothetical as any sort of behavior might be, 
regardless of any genetic predispositions any of us might have.

You can recognize streets of Minneapolis are different from the Pleistocene 
environments of our origins as a species, but our behaviors cut off from the 
current cultural paradigms are probably not that different from what they were 
hundreds of thousands of years ago, i.e., we're capable of doing what would 
seem like pretty awful stuff today, but hopefully our parents, schools, and 
society at large influenced us in a way that provides for the rights of others, 
i.e., we have responsibilities to others.

I'm unlikely to comment on this matter further because, although I feel it is 
a perfectly acceptable list topic for us, folks don't seem to be very capable 
of understanding such an approach due to deeply held biases.

Thank you Ed Felien.

Perhaps folks on the list would be interested in a more light hearted work 
for the general public on evolutionary biology; it is called "Dr. Tatiana's Sex 
Advice for All Creation" but the name of the author escapes me.

Bill Kahn
Prospect Park
"there is nothing divine about morality; it is a purely human affair"--Albert 
Einstein�
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