I'm going to violate the list rules a wee bit and keep Dennis' post below,
if for no other reason than it's so dog-gone to the point...... and true. I
don't think it was Mr. Plante's intention to include law-abiding permit
carriers in his last paragraph, if I read it properly.
Nevertheless, I'll go a step further in the analysis. We DO offer a "safety
net" that is low enough to allow those who are honestly willing to become
productive members of society to do so. The net has several levels. The
first is called Parenting. I suspect the individuals doing the shooting have
"parents" who probably will not qualify to be on Oprah anytime soon.
Although I'm painting with a broad brush, I'll bet dollars to donuts that
childhood lacked any instillment of the basic values of living with others,
getting a >legal< job, and that work is just that: work. You start out
making crappy money and eventually, when you've proven to be a strong
employee, you make more money.
The second net is called High School. Every city has them. Minneapolis has
several, and they're FREE. They exist to prepare people for life after they
finish. Some people choose not to complete their FREE education. They
voluntarily bypass this net. If I was in charge, everyone who voluntarily
dropped out of school would lose all ability to collect any government
hand-outs since they've already told society "I don't even need the bare
minimum" by quitting school.
Additionally, there are numerous job placement programs and agencies. The
Minnesota Workforce Center is a fantastic resource for people who wish to
work, and thereby contribute positively to society. I'm sure many
list-servers know of dozens of other programs, state, city, and private that
offer similar opportunities for people who wish to work.
I've worked at and been to most of the jails in the metro area (all in a
professional capacity). By and large they are populated by individuals whose
commitment to work and positive social productivity is crap, socio-economic
conditions aside. Many of the men I've worked with refuse to pay their dues
and work for minimum wage or a low-paying job (and please no "livable wage"
posts, that's another subject) and work their way up the employment ladder.
It's just plain easier to live a marginal existence where time in the pokey
is an occupational hazard.
I'm ranting a wee bit, but Dennis said (and I piggy-backed on) something
that needed to be said.
Mike Thompson
Windom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Plante" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Guns and Nirvana
It is absolute hogwash to blame the recent spike in murders and crime on
the current "socio-economic" conditions.
Even in the worst of economic times, the overwhelming majority of people,
do NOT resort to killing someone else because they have no other way to
obtain an income.
This issue is a double-edged sword. Society does in-fact (in my view)
have an obligation to provide a "safety net" that is low enough to allow
those that are honestly willing to become productive members of society,
to do so. However, society also has the obligation to set (and enforce) a
set of standards that unequivocally codemns this type of deviant
behaviour.
As long as we're making generalizations, I would be willing to bet that
the 4 individuals involved were NOT gainfully employed, had not been
looking for a job in the recent past, and had not intention of using the
$50 they stole to help support their families. I'd go even further. I'd
say the majority of murders that have occurred this year would fall under
the same statement.
There are programs available in our society for individuals that really
want to better themselves, get-off the streets and become productive
members of society. I know they exist because I have lived here long
enough to see individuals that were serious about truning their lives
around, do so.
When I was young and did not have money to go have some "fun", I either
stayed home, or found some sort of entertainment that didn't cost
anything. Do not parents still have the obligation to instill these same
values into the youth of today? Or should society just accept the
responsibility that if they don't provide jobs for everyone (even if the
individual doesn't try) that it is their fault?
If you want to blame the spate in murders on socio-economic conditions,
show me proof that ANY of the perps involved in the shootings of the 5
children had made even a meager attempt in the last year to find work.
I'll go one better.. Show me proof that any of them had EVER made a
meager attempt at finding work.
I remember a long time ago, when my ex-wife was going to college
full-time, I had the sole responsibility to support us. I was working at
a job as a sales manager at a car dealership. I did so, because it
afforded us the best opportunity financially at the time, which was what
we needed until she finished school. I had a gentlemen from the northside
come-in to purchase a vehicle from me. We got to talking about the
northside and he indicated that he always carried a concealed handgun
(illegal) when he left his home. He then proceeded to pull a stainless
steel 45 calibre auto out of his waistband to show me. Needless to say,
he had the upper-hand in the negotiations to purchase the car from that
point-on. (joke)
The mentallity that it is not only okay, but necessary to carry a gun to
protect yourself on a day-to-day basis needs to change before this segment
of society is ever going to heal itself and become productive as a whole.
And the leaders (and elders) need to take a hard, unequivicol stand
against guns and violenece. Everytime they "qualify" their statements on
violence and gunplay, by stating it is tied to "socio-economic"
conditions, they do a disservice to the very people they are "trying" to
help.
dennis plante
lind-bohanon
REMINDERS:
1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at
http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation,
contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the
list.
2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
For state and national discussions see:
http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html
For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract
________________________________
Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn
E-Democracy
Post messages to: mailto:[email protected]
Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
REMINDERS:
1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If
you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL
PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list.
2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait.
For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html
For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract
________________________________
Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn
E-Democracy
Post messages to: mailto:[email protected]
Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
