Hi
The following mail I started to write yesterday, but I couldn't finish. So
when I refer to 'yesterday' hereafter, I mean actually Sunday 20th of
August.
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Hi There...
Some comments on messages about ASCII and Den-Yu Land 2000. Only short... A
full report will appear in MCCW 93.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tristan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > This emulator is already almost finished and it will be presented on
> > Den-yu land 2000.
>
> Great! I'm very curious about this presentatioin.
Forget about this. It was not presented.
ASCII is a bit strange. To Ag0ny they say the emulator is ready in one
month, but in Nishi's talk we could see this timetable (if I understood
it...):
2001: Official MSX Emulator
2002: One Chip MSX (and something about portable (i.e. I saw katakana saying
PO TA BU LU, IIRC))
2003: New MSX released using One Chip MSX technology (again something with
portable)
AFAIK Nishi talked a lot about integration. This new MSX must be connected
to TV and is some kind of set top box. He really talked about putting it in
refridgerators. According to one of my Japanese collegues you can already
buy refridgerators in Japan which are connected to the internet. Just mail
your fridge and it tells you what you have in it.
Anyway, he thinks internet is very important. If this new MSX will really be
made, be sure that it has severe network capacities. I have the feeling
Nishi feels like it should be some centre of home-equipment.
His talk was recorded on Videotape. I hope Mr. Ikeda or Mr. Yokoi or someone
else will make an English translation of it.
About making money: it seems ASCII has quite some financial problems. They
want to get out of them by making this Elate stuff and selling MSX soft and
maybe later hardware, if we believe that. Nishi is quite enthusiastic. That
is for sure.
By the way, Tristan, I made over 60 photographs yesterday. I hope we can put
them on FUNet ASAP... Please cooperate! ;-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sander van Nunen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Well Agony,
>
> Maybe you can clarify some things.
Of course he can clarify better, but I will try to give you the info I know
about it.
> -There will be a emulator first. So far so good.
>
> But there wasn't any prototype the could show. Do you
> know anything about release dates? Is it still ready in one
> month? Or is it vaporware a la Microsoft?
See above.
> You told us that ASCII doesn't want to wait with releasing
> a new MSX, ESE or Sega will win based on wich of the
> two will come up with something working first.
>
> This news doesn't fit with the anouncement about making
> a emulator first.
Why not?
It does not fit with the announcement of Nishi on the DenYu Land fair. That
is a problem. I talked to Ag0ny about this and we both do not understand
this. Maybe he will tell you about it later, when he had his other meeting.
> Suppose the emulator is ready, and we can buy old software online. After
> that step, will we get a one chip
> msx or a new msx? Help us out here, we are confused.
See above. Thus, creating the one chip MSX is a step towards the new MSX.
In fact, there is (at least, it seems) already a one chip MSX1, as was
showed by ESE yesterday. It ran Nemesis 2 just fine!
> It seems to me that Nishi told you a different story than
> what he lectured at the fair.
Exactly. We are confused too, at this point.
> The impression we get here is that Nishi doesn't know
> what to do.
That is not my impression. My impression is that Nishi is very enthusiastic.
But I cannot explain his contradicting remarks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "K.Ikeda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> About DENYU LAND 2000. Nishi and Yamashita told new MSX project in their
> lecture meeting...
>
> 1.
> Now, K-tech is makeing a ASCII official MSX emulator under licence of
> ASCII Corp. ASCII will begin distribute this emulator on 2001. We can get
> this emulator from Interner website. And price is free. Also, ASCII will
> begin MSX old Software vender system use via Internet. We can buy
> clasical MSX games like Konami, Namco, Compile etc..
Yes, I can confirm this. At least, as far as I understood it. I cannot
understand Japanese.
> IF you want know more thing about Intent and Elate, you can visit to...
> http://www.tao.co.uk/
Yes. However, I don't really see the relation with this to MSX. Why do they
want to make this emulator for Elate? I think just to sell more copies of
Elate or something... They really want to sell Elate to make money.
> 2.
> Nishi wants make 1 chip MSX on 2003. He told us in his lecture meeting...
> We can build in 1 chip MSX inside shoes, refrigerator and etc... Ops.
> Is he crazy?
See above. I think Mr. Ikeda means here the full new one chip MSX.
> 3.
> We, Yokoi, me and the other Japanese MSX freak hope that we want new
> REAL MSX. But probably REAL MSX is after MSX emulator and 1 chip MSX.
At least, that is what I understood.
> Manuel B. asked his question to Nishi. Nishi answered to his question.
> Nishi donot forget European MSX freak and Brazilian MSX freak. You can
> ask it to Manuel B..
Yes, I asked Nishi if he was also considering the MSX users outside of
Japan. He said in good English: YES. We want to do this worldwide. More and
more Japanese speak English too, and we want also all documentation in
English. He also said he was considering of hiring non-Japanese MSX users.
(Probably talking about the possible job of Ag0ny at ASCII).
So he is very open to the opinion of the rest of the MSX users, outside of
Japan. Therefore, it might be wise to state your opinion on the denyuland
page I mentioned before.
His last remark was about that documentation. Of course I thanked him for
that... ;-)
However, I don't know how he wants to do this from a technical point of view
(like keyboards... or ROM versions...)
> I saw Ag0ny(and his girl friend), S.T.A.R., Juan(and his girl friends),
> Manuel B and Bernard, Alex Sato etc... You can ask about DENYU LAND to
> them.
You can. I hope to make a full report in MCCW 93, as I already said to you.
I agreed with Ag0ny and STAR about their cooperation.
Also I want to thank Takamichi for translating the whole talk about Elate.
Too bad he wasn't there when Nishi was talking. I think that talk was a lot
more interesting!
Something about ESE again: I think their work is the most important to get
the new MSX. Please support them in anyway you can imagine. I got a flyer
from them, but it is in Japanese. I hope that someone can translate it.
Also, I saw a small article about MSX in the biggest magazine of ASCII,
called ASCII. It was very small though and in Japanese. I hope my collegues
can translate it. I will post it then. One thing: above it was the title:
Launch of New Groups (or something)
About rumours.
Fine if you consider something that Nishi says a rumour. Personally, I think
it is the wrong word. But Mr. Nishi definately has plans, that is for sure.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Werner Augusto Roder Kai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Although Javi and Nestor say that is not just a rumour, we must
> consider it as a rumour unless we get news directly from ASCII, or we
> can read at the ASCII homepage: "We will make new MSX MACHINE".
I think hearing from Nishi is the same as hearing directly from ASCII.
However, there is indeed no big news on ASCII's webpages about a new MSX.
There WAS news about this emulator though, in the report of last year's
Den-Yu Land.
> You know (or at least should know) most of Japanese people (like the
> American-USA people) don't mind about what is happening out of their
> countries. They think and they do the things exclusively for themselves
> (Turbo-R). Anime and Manga could rule the comicz world if the Japanese
I was afraid of the same, so I asked Mr. Nishi. See above.
> How many MSXes were produced in Japan ? 4 or 5 million ? The amount of
I think at least 50 times more.
> MSXes produced/sold outsite the Japan is less than 10% of the total
> amount of MSXes in the world. So we really are not business for them.
Ask Wammes Witkop how many MSXs were sold in the Netherlands. I am not sure
about it anymore, but I remember him saying about 100 000 MSX1 machines and
about 250000 MSX2 machines. Or something.
> What the Japanese market needs/wants ? Maybe SEGA or even Panasonic
> wants a new console to beat N64/PSX, or even kill SNES that is still
> beind sold... In Japan electronic gadgets are really cheap, they have
> money, and they buy anything new, just because is new...
Note some things: since the early 90s, Japan is not so rich anymore. The
economical crisis caused A LOT of problems here in Japan. Do not assume
Japanese people are rich. Though, indeed SNES and even NES are still being
sold. However, if I tell this to Japanese collegues, they are also
surprised.
You are right when you say Japanese want new stuff. However, they also like
retro-things. Many people have at least a SNES emulator here! ;-)
> I can't talk for Europe, but what WE need here in Brazil ? We need a
> home computer with FDD standard. HD, CD, color InkJet printer and
> Internet capabilities, small, that can be used with TV or monitor, and
> with all software in Portuguese, costing the same as a 20" TV set or VCR
> what is equal to +/- 250 US$. Is it possible today ? YES.
See above. Something like this seems to be the plan of Mr. Nishi.
> What I think and I'm very afraid of ? ASCII wants to make a new console
> or computer that can perfectly emulate an old MSX. So this way getting
> the advantage of lots of old good games and applications already made.
> If they succeed in this step (making an emulator), they probably will
> not invest any money/time in a 'new MSX'.
I don't know about this. There wasn't said anyting about making a totally
new computer which would emulate MSX. There was spoken about a new MSX
though, with one chip technology.
> But God knows how I want to be completely wrong about this, and maybe
> ASCII really wants to make a new powerful MSX MACHINE, with extended
> capabilities and a reverse compatibility mode with old MSX standards...
I think so. But we can never be sure what really will happen.
> ASCII must realize that Japanese people are NOT good in creating new
> things. Japanese are good in making things cheaper, smaller, faster...
> But see... they could have made a thing like Joynet years before us, but
> they made ninja tap extended... They never thought in direct acess to
> VRAM... They never used DMA and NMI capabilities of Z80...
Please do not generalize so much! In 1983 they DID make a new computer. MSX.
(Okay, probably with the help of SPectravideo...)
> If they really wants to make a new MSX MACHINE, it will be a great big
> great mistake if people like Ademir Carchano, Adriano Cunha, Ricardo
> Bittencourt, Leonardo Padial, Leonard Oliveira, Nestor Soriano, Daniel
> Zorita, Manuel Pazos, Henrik Gilvad, Cas Cremers, Maarten ter Huurne,
> Sunrise and other great MSX users were not asked or even employed in the
> project.
Mr. Nishi therefore said (see above) that he wanted to involve non-Japanese
MSX users.
Now, for something completely different:
OF COURSE there will always be place for hobby groups. There are also those
groups for Playstation and such nowaydays.
Also for meetings/fairs there is ALWAYS place.
About the ASCII MSX Emulator: they did NOT speak about emulation of a NEW
MSX. Only of the old MSX. So please do not make wrong comparisons!
Daniel Z. writes:
>> But have not Ag0ny and Japanese users talked with ASCII?
>Fortunately YES. And thanks to them, we have a few information.
>But I don't know if they can discuss technical features to ASCII.
Of course they can. As said above, they are very open to suggestions. Please
make them on the Den Yu Land page.
From: "Daniel Zorita" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 5:19 AM
Subject: RE: NEW MSX. NICE !!. BUT BEST ????
> Let me list 2 ways of react:
>
> a) Accept the new MSX in the way that ASCII thinks.
>
> b) Try to convince ( and press a bit ) to ASCII to make a better new MSX.
>
> I think "b)". But if you (and most MSXers) consider that I'm wrong, I am
> disposed to change to "a)" in order to not disturb.
>
> Will you ask me to "change to a) " ??? Do you think that I'm disturbing
> thinking "b)" ????
Of course b is fine. See above! They want your input!
> Please, advertise me. I may be wrong believeing that ASCII can make a nice
> MSX with cute technology of year 2000. But I don't know about ASCII, and I
> may be wrong, as they only can make a new MSX with the 1990's technology.
Of course they want to make use of new technology. But if they want to make
an MSX, it has to be also Z80... I hear about >100 MHz Z80....
> Really, I would like that the "New MSX project" was not a close project. I
> wish that ASCII can improve the design along the time, before fixing MSX-3
> features.
It is not closed.
> The 3 main features I will like to improve are:
> 1) The CPU: a 32 bit Z80. Doesn't matter if Z380, Z480, Z123,Z***,
ZMSX....
> but please, a CPU that can store more than 64KB of code, and can access in
> linear way several MB of data. Cannot they contact Zilog to design a new
CPU
> ??
> 2) The VDP resolutions: If they want to make a graphic O.S. for MSX-3, a
> 512x212x16 colors screen is not enough. A 256x212x19K screen is not enough
> for showing JPGs or WEBs. If the old MSX screens are going to be emulated
> with a FPS processor, it's easy to add more powerful screen modes !!
> 3) A 32-bit MSX-DOS -3 , compatible with DOS-2 (Mscsi, IDE, ...) but with
> the chance to address HDDs of more than 10 GB, and variable cluster size.
Let ASCII know this! Post on the Den Yu Land website!
> Is it too much for the current technology ?? I think NO. Because Sega and
> Sony have made much more powerful systems, at very low prices: Dreamcast
and
> PSX-2. For the double money (60.000 or 70.000 yens) a powerful MSX is
> possible.
Really, the PS2 is 40000 Yen. Everywhere I looked. And I think that is quite
expensive.
> Money is not a trouble for MSXers. POWER is the trouble for MSXers.
Make it too expensive and you sell nothing. Really. Especially to non-MSX
users.
> > consider what is possible and what isn't, and why. And then you should
> > contact ASCII and offer them your help.
> You're right. These discussions have been too wide and useless.
> Please, give us a official e-mail address to send to ASCII ideas about new
> MSX.
Use their website. Maybe you can also e-mail Mr. Nishi. His address you can
find on the FAQ. According to Ag0ny he should reply. However, when I mailed
him some months ago, I only got an indirect reaction through Frontline and
Mr. Ikeda asking: WHO IS MANUEL BILDERBEEK? ;-)
Maybe now it would be easier.
Indeed Rieks, I really think we should ACCEPT at least SOMETHING is going on
at ASCII Corp. And since Mr. Nishi REALLY talks about an official MSX
emulator, One Chip MSX and a New MSX using this One Chip MSX technology, we
are sure that there are at least plans.
About this webpage with the pictures: this year there were 988 visitors to
MSX Den-Yu Land 2000, according to Mr. Yokoi. But I think about 100 people
were in the room at one time. So many people walked in and out. I don't know
how they counted. Maybe they double counted everyone who went away for lunch
and came back...
Nice: it was held in a very expensive room in the middle of Akihabara.
People on the streets near the building were giving flyers to passing
people. The problem: MANY flyers are given in Akihabara and almost no-one
takes them... *sigh*
Well, this is the end of this e-mail. A full report can be expected for MCCW
93.
I hope it is not too messy, since I reacted on everyone... hence this
spaghetti e-mail.
It is probably all still very confusing. Sorry for that.
Best regards,
Manuel
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PS: MSX 4 EVER! (Questions? See: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/)
PPS: Visit my home page at http://bilderbeek.cjb.net/
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