I would merely advise all parties to terminate this discussion at once and to remove all references to it from their mail boxes. To discuss an individual's application, personal circumstances or reaction to acceptance or rejection of a post involving even part-time engagement on an open list or via email in this way is simply asking for legal trouble, no matter what one may feel. This is especially the case if the information discussed can lead to the individual being identified. Believe me, I have seen exactly this kind of thing lead to the threat of legal action and the institution involved having to settle with serious money. Derek Lewis
________________________________ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Christian Boitet Sent: Mon 14-Apr-08 10:54 PM To: Job M. van Zuijlen; Andy Way; [email protected] Cc: Daoud Maher Daoud; daoud; Mosleh Al-Adaileh Subject: Re: [Mt-list] Rogue student's answer (PhD application) At 17:16 -0400 14/04/08, Job M. van Zuijlen wrote: >I was not going to react to this, but since this is now becoming a >very public discussion, I feel compelled. Nothing in the >qualifications of the person involved as provided in Andy Way's >email would necessarily make him ineligible as far as I can see, >and, moreover that is not the issue. I'm sure he behaved improper >in his response, but I think we have to be careful in making this a >vendetta against one person. I've had my share of abusive behavior >from NLP employers, but never felt the need to make those events >public. > >As far is age goes, that remark sounds like age discrimination to >me. But maybe things are different in Europe nowadays, since I left. In most countries, there are age limits for PhD *grants*. In France, that limit is 26. 39 is way over. You may find this discriminative, but not putting such a limit mith also be seen as discriminative -- against the younger would-be researchers in a situation to make their whole carrier in research. On the other hand, nothing (at least in France) prevents anybody to get hired in a lab on a research contract and get support for a PhD this way. Or to work in any company and do his PhD "on the side". I have recent and ancient experience of both situations in my lab, with people over 40. The point is that Andy got out of his way to warn us about that person. My remark is that, anyway, considering what he choose to tell us about that person, there would not be a big risk of any "usual" lab offering a PhD grant to that person. No big harm in this remark, or is there? Perhaps, after all: I may be wrong there, and, ma foi, Job, I would certainly not discourage you to give a PhD grant to that person. On the other hand, would it be discriminative or not to give him or not to give him a grant...? ;-) >Job van Zuijlen Christian Boitet > >-------------------------------------------------- >From: "Christian Boitet" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 11:05 >To: "Andy Way" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]> >Cc: "Mosleh Al-Adaileh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "daoud" ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Daoud Maher Daoud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: [Mt-list] Rogue student's answer (PhD application) > >>Dear Andy, 14/4/08 >> >>"Je compatis" with you, as it is always shocking to receive abusive >>responses. >> >>On top of that, the profile of that person and his age would not >>qulify him for a PhD grant in MT anywhere (neither in CS nor in CL >>nor in linguistics nor in translation). >> >>I happen to know a few researchers in Jordan, but not his one. >>I relay this to two of them, wo did good research in MT, for >>further enquiring. >> >>Best regards, >> >>Xan >>(Ch.Boitet) >> >>At 10:00 +0100 14/04/08, Andy Way wrote: >>>Folks, >>>As you know, I've recently advertised for a number of PhD positions in >>>MT in our group at DCU. I'm pleased to say that all positions are now >>>filled. >>> >>>Accordingly, on Friday morning last week, I contacted all unsuccessful >>>applicants informing them of my decision. This was the usual type of >>>message thanking them for their interest in the positions, and wishing >>>them well in their future academic careers. >>> >>>I regret to say that I received an abusive response to this mail from >>>one applicant, and I think it is worth passing on his details in case he >>>applies for any other MT-related position. >>> >>>His name is Ammar Hussein, using the email address [EMAIL PROTECTED], >>>and in his application to me, he stated the following: >>> >>>> I am a Jordanian citizen, 39 years old. I hold a master's degree >>>>in computer science with a very good average and bachelor's >>>>degree with excellent average. I wish to inquire if it is >>>>possible for students from outside the European union to apply >>>>for the scholarships for PhD studies in machine translation. I >>>>have several years of work experience in the computer field as >>>>well as a couple as a translator. The work I undertook included >>>>feeding machine translation software for a company called Apptek >>>>(www.apptek.com). Needless to say I am interested in the work of >>>>machine translation especially as pertaining to Arabic. >>> >>>I wouldn't normally do this, but then again, I've never received such a >>>defamatory response to what was in my opinion just common courtesy. I >>>know that many other leading MT groups have more money than student >>>applicants, and it's important to make the community aware of such rogue >>>students for the common good. >>>Andy. >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Mt-list mailing list >> >> _______________________________________________ Mt-list mailing list
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