Quoting: G Denis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> There are many flaws in this argument, and > generalizations as a whole that you fail to understand > here. It's not a matter of failing to understand things. It's that I didn't think this through too clearly. The sports that I shouldn't have included in the list are hockey and football. WIth basketball the attendance for the most part has as you said been consistent at 70 to 90 percent capacity. Yet the league is not in great financial shape. Football, although it attracts fans, suffers from the problem of keeping the franshise in one place. You can add your spin as to why this happens. The fact remains that if a franshise is performing well financially, it will stay. > Basketball and hockey are consistently attended. Most > games are sell outs, many with 70% to 90% capacity. > Their seasons run for 82 games - 41 home/away. Yes, consistenly attended is not the issue. A sport could be consistently attended at 10 to 15 thousand fans a game, and that wouldn't at all be impressive. And especially in a population the size of the U.S. In terms of basketball, I was basing my impression on the games I see on the TV, which in general don't look well attended. Perhaps, I have been only watching the pistons. (I implore anyone to randomly select NBA games to watch and see what I'm talking about). Secondly, as you yourself remark, the busineses buy up the tickets. The tickets are bought for the season, yet that doesn't necessarily translate into fans fillings up the seats or traditional support for the team. Thirdly, and most pertinent to this conversation, the stadium capacity for the NBA, Baseball, and hockey franshises are much less than with the big football clubs in europe. Take the Toronto Maple Leafs: one of major hockey franshises in the NHL and one of best supported teams in N.A. hockey. They average home attendance is 18 000 fans. Pretty meagre in comparison to the big European football clubs. And this is in a city that is supposedly hockey crazy. In the south and south west U.S., where many of the new franshises have sprung up, attendance is lower and there is NO traditional fan base, let alone much enthusiasm for hockey apart from amongst the little niche of supporters. The only sports which equals are surpasses football support in europe, if attendance and TV viewership is used as a indicator, is American "football". Yet, in terms of the percentages of Americans who watch or support "football", I doubt that this could even compare to the level of support for football in Europe or the rest of the world. I suspect also that it's not too great is one takes into consideration the overall population of the U.S. > > I won't go into the argument of television coverage > and ratings for American sports, although it does play > a significant part in attendance numbers. > > > A lot of the teams fold (i.e., go bankrupt) and are > > then moved to other > > cities, which is probably one of the reasons why > > there is no real > > traditional fan base for most American (and the few > > remaining > > Canadian) professional sports clubs ( aside from, > > perhaps, teams like > > the New York Yankees, and the Toronto Maple Leafs, > > who have been > > around for ages). > > American teams fold for two reasons. Firstly, owners > buy teams as a hobby, or passing fancy. They often > come from successful businesses in other industries > thinking that owning a sports franchise has got to be > easy. They soon learn otherwise. Secondly, expansion > of major sports leagues (NFL, NBA, MLB & NHL) is the > result of greed and over-saturation - more supply than > demand. The quality of play declines. Teams move about > & new franchises are awarded in every major sport each > season. Right. There is not enough support for the sport -- ie., low demand. If said sports were so popular *to watch*, this wouldn't be an issue. They could expand far and beyond the current number of the teams. But, they can't because, unlike Europe and the rest of world, american sporting franshises can really only survive in (or around) a big city. > > > One factor that probably accounts for the lack of > > enthusiasm for > > world sports in the U.S. and Canada is that North > > Americans in > > general -- but Americans in particular -- are a very > > insulated > > people. > > But, I think > > that if the sucesses of both their women's and men's > > national > > football teams continue, it is only a matter of > > time before football > > becomes one of the four popular sports in the U.S. > > America has ALWAYS been isolated. Two large oceans can > do that to you.>>>> Look at Australia, look at South American, Central America, Mexico, the far east, etc, etc? Agreed, the American national soccer > team has had fantastic success recently. But it will > always be viewed as an immigrant's game, whether those > immigrants come from Europe, Africa, Latin America or > Asia.>>>>> I suspect you're wrong, but we will see. But, just consider the U.S. women's national "soccer" team for a second. They win the world cup and the popularity of the women's sport skyrockets. Americans are so used to winning everything that, as a fan, you don't take up a sport unless you're dominating it. Being a Canadian, I was hoping against...that you Yanks would bomb in the world cup, but had the Americans progressed farther than they did (which given the officiating, was always a possibility) I suspect that, like with the women, you wouldn't hear the end of it. I think that you really underestimate the marketing potential for football in the U.S. and what drives it: a combinatioin of corp. advertising, the media, and success in the sport. ------------------------ Yahoo! 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