Hello, Peter ...
It's the "destroy the token" part where everybody goes off the end of the dock. What
is this hang up with physicality?
They (or I) can delete their trust root from the token but since (at least in my view)
the token will hold multiple roots, they (whoever the "they" are that feel they need
to destroy the token) don't get to destroy the roots of the other entities I have
choosen to trust.
I don't think any argues any more that there will be an entity that is willing to
underwrite all of my trust relationships. I don't see banks stepping up to underwrite
the sanctity of my medical records nor do I see that the telecoms are eager to vouch
for my driving abilities.
Both TCPA and GlobalPlatform posit a platform root that only attests to the
suitability of the platform. Neither of these architectures suggest that the platform
needs to be destroyed if a trust relationship that it is hosting is rescinded.
Perhaps we should consult Freud regarding the need to destroy something physical when
a relationship ends.
Cheers, Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Tomlinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Mon 1/12/2004 3:34 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc:
Subject: Re: [Muscle] White Card
Scott Guthery wrote:
> The TCPA architecture and Global Platform finally got it right. The card
holder
> is the card issuer.
>
and
>Trust is not transitive. The only multitrust token that will ever fly is
the white card.
Then Anders Rundgren wrote:
> That means that you in essense say that TTPs don't work. We already use
TTPs
> since a long time ago for physical IDs in many countries and making IDs
> electronic is no different, it is just a "form-factor" question. It is
interesting
> to see these EU-projects where governments have a role as TTPs for IDs
> when the "market" is really banks who take on this role. Which BTW they
> are pretty well geared for compared to the governments as owning a bank-
> account in most "regimes" requires that the customer is identified, while
> on-line banking requires electronic identification systems. That is,
banks'
> own needs matches the needs of e-governments. At least if you look on
> this over a 3-5 year period.
First, in the study that I worked on, govts are not seen as TTPs except for
each other - i.e. the idea is that you can (within the EC) take an ID card
from country A and go and live and/or work in country B and be identifiable
there with country A's ID card). For a long time, every time I saw a
description of a PKI it turned out to be not a TTP but rather to be
controlled by one of the other 2 parties - OSCIE GIF really does suggest
that one govt will a TTP for another. Govts are at heart interested in
knowing who is in the country (i.e. knowing about the risk that govt will be
overthrown), and ensuring that you pay your taxes.
The long running chasm (thousands of years old) between bankers and central
govts hasn't disappeared. That's why govts and bankers each want to issue
certificates once a smart card is used. They will not accept self-issued
certificates because they want to be able to revoke them by destroying the
token that the individual holds (black listing (revoking) is only the first
stage), and they think they have to be the issuer (and control the TTP so
that it becomes no longer a third party) in order to be able to destroy.
However, here in the UK the banking system worked extremely well for a long
time without needing TTPs (although I do remember being given my first bank
account because my father took me along to the bank where he banked) - until
it was decided that banks had to be policemen, and so we have a situation
where we fool ourselves into thinking that using a utility bill as 'proof of
activity in society' is good enough to be registered with a so-called TTP
(that might be controlled by either commerce or govt).
Gore Vidal quoting someone who quoted an ancient thinker wrote that
societies go through a cycle of 4 states: chaos, theocracy, autocracy,
democracy and back to chaos. He believes that western democracy is heading
into chaos (even as some try to take it back into autocracy). (Hope I got
the sequence right.)
Peter
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