Sorry, my little rant was not intended to offend anyone, but to point out that the AutoArchive feature is too confusing. I'm not saying MLO is not a good product, either. Out of probably more than two dozen self-proclaimed GTD apps that I looked at, MLO is the one that supports the most GTD use-cases while having to resort to the fewest crazy workarounds. The reason for my venting is that getting rid of old, completed tasks seems like something that should be very straightforward, but after stumbling on the AutoArchive feature, I discovered that it's not.
I appreciate your support regarding the Review feature, but there is a difference between that (or any other feature I've used to-date) and AutoArchive. With the Review feature, it's easy for you to decide whether or not you want to use it. But with AutoArchvie, it's not clear at all--in my case, it seems like AutoArchive would serve a basic need, but at the same time it could do something to completely screw up my file if I don't properly configure everything from the start. The aspect that blows my mind is that some things which should be simple and obvious just aren't. For example, if an app touts itself first and foremost as a GTD tool (which MLO does very prominently on its website), it should have certain features and they should function a certain way. Or, at the very least, there should be a start-to- finish guide on how to improvise a GTD-style inbox, for example. You and others helped me clear up my inbox confusion (and I greatly appreciate the help), but all that confusion could have been avoided in the first place. The "Case Studies" section of the website consists of a single, coarsely-defined 5-step HowTo for GTD. Out of all the links to more information on setting up MLO for use with GTD, most are broken or don't actually provide much information. The "GTD practices, guidelines, examples" link points to a Google Groups thread with 13 posts which seem to be a rehash of things that are in the user manual or feature list. It's also a little weird that MLO relies on fans of the product to set up most of the infrastructure for user feedback. It's admirable that MLO has so many loyal followers, but in a way the followers are actually doing the leading. The problem with this is that the fan-hosted websites disappear over time and links on the main MLO website go stale. Getting back on topic...now I can't figure out the most appropriate way to deal with completed tasks. I could just leave them, but my outline will become far too unwieldy whenever I need to uncheck the "hide completed tasks" box. Deleting the completed tasks one at a time myself seems like a lot of work that shouldn't be necessary, but the alternative--using AutoArchive--is incredibly confusing because of all the options. The documentation does not explain any of the options, and the few posts I could find on the Google group suggest that only the developers know exactly how the feature and all its options work. It's like getting a Swiss Army knife that you have to put together yourself, when all you want to do is slice an apple. But if you screw up putting it together, the screwdriver is either going to pop loose and poke your eye out, or the blade is going to close on your hand when you try to use it. I think AutoArchive was probably originally added with good intentions, but now it has had one band-aid after another slapped on in an attempt to fix some original design issues. Maybe what follows should be a separate thread, but I think helps to explain my confusion. Let me run down the list of options: - Run AutoArchive every [number] days. The default is 10. Is there a reason why I wouldn't want it to run every day? Or was this feature just copied from Outlook without really considering whether the whole AutoArchive paradigm was the right idea for the job? - Prompt before AutoArchive runs. The fact that this option exists at all implies that AutoArchive might do something that I really don't want it to do. I have my suspicions that this option was also copied from Outlook, but again, is Outlook-style AutoArchive really the most appropriate solution? How am I supposed to know whether it's actually safe to run AutoArchive or not when the prompt comes up? How do I even know if I will make the right decision? If I keep postponing AutoArchive because I'm unsure of what to do, I might as well disable it...but that means I'll have to delete old tasks manually myself. - Clean out tasks completed more than [number of days/weeks/months] ago. Fairly self-explanatory, but how long should I let old tasks pile up? How short a period is too short? What, exactly, does it clean out? If I have a recurring task with subtasks that takes me a long time to complete, will the subtasks be removed? - Clean out completed tasks only with all subtasks completed. That's a mouthful! Yet it's still probably not completely accurate. I would assume completed tasks with no subtasks would also be removed, but I have no way of knowing for certain without experimenting. - Copy old tasks to archive/Remove old tasks after copy (i.e. move to selected archive). I can understand why some people might want to keep their tasks and why others might want to move them, but there is no reason for AutoArchive to include a "copy to archive but also keep in main file" option because the Backup feature would accomplish the same thing (and do a better job of it). But because the option is there, I'm left to wonder if I should be using it for some reason unknown to me. - Permanently delete old tasks. AutoArchive implies that tasks will be kept somewhere. Delete is the opposite of keep. If I had enabled the Delete option a long time ago but now decide I don't want it, I might not think to look in the AutoArchive settings. - Do not archive tasks in this branch. Right-click a task or folder, open the Advanced menu, click Properties... then click the AutoArchive task. That's where this checkbox is buried, about as far away from the AutoArchive settings as possible. It's one of only two items buried in this dialog, and is the only item in the Advanced Task Properties dialog that isn't viewable and reachable from the normal Properties pane. How I would fix all this confusion: 1. Document all the options and explain when you would use each one and what unintended side-effects it might have. If all imaginable potential side-effects have been considered and been rendered impossible, document those and explain that they have been accounted for. 2. Rename "AutoArchive" to "Clean up completed tasks" and add a "Clean up completed tasks" button to the main screen. This will put control back in the users' hands, and we will be able to clean up completed tasks when we know it's safe--such as right after a review. 3. Rename "Run AutoArchive every [number] days" to "Clean up completed tasks every [number] days" and move the option to the bottom of the "Clean up completed tasks" options (formerly AutoArchive options), for people who want the auto-cleanup feature. 4. Remove the "Prompt before AutoArchive runs" checkbox. The "Clean up completed tasks" button in the main screen eliminates the need for this option. 5. Rename "Clean out completed tasks only with all subtasks completed" to "Skip tasks with incomplete subtasks." 6. Replace "Copy old tasks to archive/Remove old tasks after copy" compound option with a single "Move completed tasks to archive" option. As I mentioned earlier, the "copy to archive and keep in main file" option is equivalent to disabling the Clean up (formerly AutoArchive) feature and enabling the Backup feature. 7. Move the "Do not archive tasks in this branch" checkbox from the Advanced Task Properties dialog to the Properties page and rename it to "Do not clean up this branch." 8. Bonus points: show the list of "Do not clean up" branches in the "Clean up completed tasks" settings (formerly AutoArchive settings). If even just the first two changes were made, I don't think I ever would have had any question about what I should do with my completed tasks. Again, sorry for coming off so crabby. That part of my original post was only intended to convey my confusion and frustration in trying to answer what (to me) seemed like a basic and inevitable question that should have a simple answer...yet I still remain clueless about what I should be doing with my completed tasks. On Nov 12, 8:31 am, Lisa Stroyan <[email protected]> wrote: > On Fri, Nov 11, 2011 at 7:45 PM, Rob <[email protected]> wrote: > > I've started trying out the desktop version of MLO and it looks like > > there are a lot of different ways to handle completed items. > > I've never used, seen, or been bothered by Auto Archive. Yet I see people > on the forum talking about using it quite frequently so I'm sure there are > people that appreciate it. > > Rob, you seem like a nice, and very intelligent, guy, and so your message > has me confused, so at the risk of pissing you off, I'm going to push back > a little. Hopefully I've developed enough credibility with you that you > will humor me. > > I see myself as kind and intelligent, too :) I KNOW that the developer is > both because of my interactions with him. And this list has some amazing > people on it; overall (and I have a lot of experience with email groups) > quite a sharp group and willing to help out others. > > Why do you assume that something you don't want is bloat but lack of > something you want is a major design flaw? I might never use a review > feature, I might think it's way overkill for what I want to do. Perhaps I > could be perfectly happy with making my own "REVIEW" context and setting it > / unsetting it on tasks as I review them. But I support you wanting that > feature, for your process...If I came in and called that feature names, I > would be told, "just don't use it". > > Perhaps at some point in the past, someone really needed an auto-archive > feature and asked for it, and the developers responded, and gave them that > option. I'm not saying you should use Auto-archive, or even that it's a key > feature of MLO. But perhaps you might want to ask people what they use it > for and why it's designed that way, before you suggest that it's horrible? > Look at the following paragraph, can you not see how insulting that is to > all of us here and to the developers?? It blows your mind that you need > to ask basic questions like this? Really? > > it's so bloated with options I'm having a > > > hard time figuring out whether I should even trust it to do the right > > thing. It seems like there should just be a button to "clean up > > completed items" instead. I appreciate the capabilities of MLO, but > > frankly, it blows my mind that I have to ask basic questions like this > > in the first place. I would highly recommend that the developers come > > up with a single straightforward "correct" solution and banish > > AutoArchive and all its complexity to the dark realm from whence it > > came. > > I'm sorry that you somehow got such a bad view of MLO and somehow think > everyone on this list is blind to it's faults. But everyone is entitled to > an opinion, and everyone here is also entitled to respect. I honestly do > respect you and believe your newcomers perspective adds a lot to the > discussion...I hope you can reciprocate long enough to decide if MLO is the > right product for your needs. > > I'll let someone else take the time to answer your other questions. Thanks > for listening. > > Lisa Stroyanwww.empathic-parenting.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MyLifeOrganized" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. 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