Alex, unless you have 100’s of hours to spare it is not practical to hand layout the most recent S100 boards we have. At least for most of us.
John From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of J. Alexander Jacocks Sent: Monday, June 23, 2014 11:43 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [N8VEM-S100:4353] Re: FreeRouter No longer available. Long term plans for Board layouts Having not worked with KiCAD, can someone tell me if it doesn't have an autorouter or if it is hard to use, or not very functional? Honestly, as good as the autorouter in DipTrace is, I generally lay out my boards manually, or if I do let the autorouter run, I end up heavily editing the results. Thanks! - Alex On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 2:33 PM, David Fry <[email protected]> wrote: Hi John, for those of us that may not have the cash to invest in this kind of software would it be possible for a laid out PCB design in Ki-Cad to be exported as a Spectra design file which you could route in Diptrace and then send back the routed spectra file to the Ki-Cad user for post processing ? The other thing that comes to mind is that all the existing S100 designs will need to be maintained through any revisions/updates so I guess what I am asking above would be the process to maintain existing boards. regards David Fry On Monday, June 23, 2014 6:17:54 PM UTC+1, monahanz wrote: So what are we going to do folks? We need a long term solution to make these boards. I tried the QAutorouter by Mike. Mine just hung (will contact him to find out why), but no matter what way you look at it he is just starting off and it will take a long time to have a version that works with boards of our complexity. This is clearly an early work in progress. We should help but there is no way it will fit our immediate needs. I have been reading reviews of various packages, Just Google DipTrace & KiCad for example see here:- http://provideyourown.com/2012/choosing-pcb-layout-software/ DipTrace generally seems to come out on top. It is a commercial package, they charge by IC pin count. Up to 300 (apparently unwritten) 500 pins, are free in demo downloads. You can use any board size you like. There is a built in a huge library that contains as best I can tell all the chips we commonly use. Some of our simpler boards could probably get by with 500 pins. The thing that is impressive is the routing. It (before your eyes) moves all the IC's around and at lightning speed does the routing. If I also remember correctly (it's been 5 years), there is no pin limit on the drawing schematic, it just for the routing. I know the price may be too much for some, but frankly considering the few board we actually get out a year, I for one would have no problem here processing them for others. I can just set aside an old PC dedicated box to do it. May even be a way to let people outside use it... The one catch is there would be some effort (and danger) in the onetime laying down of the basic S100 board (or others), getting the dimensions and connector spacing's right. Way back (about 5 years ago), I actually helped a guy do a simple S100 bare board where he did all the basic work (by trial & error). I'm kicking myself because I lost track of him and while I once had it, I cannot now find his library file. I'm going to find out/try their forum to see if anybody has done a S100 board. I'm wondering also if one could splice KiCad data into DipTrace, will ask. Can others please comment on this important issue as it will have potential major impact on our long term plans and direction John http://provideyourown.com/2012/choosing-pcb-layout-software/ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, June 23, 2014 6:51 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [N8VEM-S100:4347] Re: FreeRouter No longer available. Long term plans for Board layouts Hi This is my nightmare come true. Some of you will recall my concerns earlier about our almost complete dependence on FreeRouter and my calls for another autorouting solution. It looks like the time for QAutorouter may have arrived at last. As soon as I get back tonight I will remove the FreeRouting files on the wiki. If the copyrights are in question we have to move away from FreeRouting. Fortunately KiCAD is still usable without FreeRouting. Thanks and have a nice day! Andrew Lynch -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 6/22/14, yoda <[email protected]> wrote: Subject: Re: [N8VEM-S100:4339] Re: FreeRouter No longer available. Long term plans for Board layouts To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Date: Sunday, June 22, 2014, 9:02 PM Ah - thanks for the clarification. Dave On Sunday, June 22, 2014 7:42:11 PM UTC-5, monahanz wrote:Perhaps we’re OK Dave. It’s just that the “Zuken” (whoever he/it is) is accusing the author of copyright infringement etc. It may be he will want Andrew to remove the link as well. Time to download it/use it, may be limited!!!John From: [email protected] [mailto:n8vem...@ googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of yoda Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2014 5:18 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [N8VEM-S100:4336] Re: FreeRouter No longer available. Long term plans for Board layouts I don't understand what the problem is ? The code is here http://n8vem-sbc.pbworks. com/w/browse/#view=ViewFolder& param=FreeRouting-net and works fine? It is actually easier to run locally then from their web site. Am I missing something? Dave On Sunday, June 22, 2014 5:41:53 PM UTC-5, monahanz wrote:It looks like the http://www.freerouting.net/ web site for FreeRouter is no longer available! This leaves us with a big problem making PC boards with KiCad. (Fortunately I happen to have the PC version here for my own use), but it opens up a general question as to how we do PC boards (S100 and others) in the future. Personally I'm having a hard time getting things done with KiCad. The PCBNew program seems (to me) very "finicy" in making files for Freerouter. I'm wondering what other people think about a more "All-in-one" PC CAD program. I once used a program called DipTrace (they have a free version for up to 500 pins to try it out). See here http://diptrace.com/. The thing that impressed me was the speed in which it converted the schematic into an actual board file and Gurber files. There was only one program, one interface. Personally I would spring for paying for the 1000 pin commercial version (or heigher) , I and perhaps others, could run batches for others. The main issue is that for any program we would have to build a library for the S100 connector, board dimensions and presumably a number of other things. I would be interested in hearing comments by others on a way to proceed. Has anybody else used CAD programs they like. Anybody got experience with DipTrace John -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "N8VEM-S100" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to n8vem-s100+...@ googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/ optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "N8VEM-S100" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "N8VEM-S100" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "N8VEM-S100" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "N8VEM-S100" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "N8VEM-S100" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
