On July 6, 2025 at 17:30 [email protected] (John Levine) wrote:
>
> On 06-07-2025 17:05, [email protected] wrote:
> > > The B2B spam I get from throwaway accounts at large mail
> > > providers is probably only 1000 or less at a time since that's all you
> > can
> > > send that way. I do not think there is one master criminal with a
> > million
> > > throwaway Gmail accounts.
> >
> > You've moved from spam to ham, no?
>
> It's spam, bulk mail sent to people who didn't ask for it. Some offer
> SEO, some offer financing for my non-existent business, it's all clearly
> purchased lists sending mail in bulk to strangers.
I probably have a broader definition of "spam" than most which amounts
to: if I'm not being paid to deliver it by the sender then it's spam.
>
> > Do you have to show ID to drop a stamped envelope in a postal box?
>
> Wait a minute. Stamps? Where did the stamps come from? Who issues
> them? Who decides if they're real? Perhaps you should reread my white
> paper more carefully.
You brought up IDs I was just reacting...
>Beyond the fact that the underlying assumption is wrong, that's extremely
>unlikely to work unless you envision a world where you have to show ID and
>get a license to send mail.
> R's,
> John
>
> > > At this point I get a whole lot of mail from Salesforce and Sendgrid.
> > I
> > > would love to block them but unfortunately they also send a lot of
> > mail my
> > > users want, so I have to do hacks that try to recognize the customer
> > and
> > > let through the less bad ones. It is painfully clear that they have
> > made
> > > business decisions not to spend enough money on abuse management to
> > clean
> > > this up. The mail gets through, why should they?
> >
> > Again this is what is generally called "ham" unless you want
> > to apply it to anything you're not personally interested in.
>
> Again, bulk mail sent to strangers. It's the normal definition of spam.
> I'm not talking about companies that send you ads after you order
> something, this is spam sent to complete strangers.
I don't disagree, I just think the tide of "ham" is rising rapidly and
this reasonable-sounding definition of spam is becoming unworkable.
And, I'll add, it was pretty much inevitable, tragedy of the commons
and all that.
--
-Barry Shein
Software Tool & Die | [email protected] | http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD
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