Wouldn't it make sense to then play a message for those users before they
even connect to a representative to check the power to their equipment?

On Tue, Dec 2, 2025 at 1:41 PM Josh Luthman via NANOG <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Because we would get things like "why is my IP address super long, I can't
> play Xbox now" or "my computer says it is IPv6 enabled, does that mean
> someone hacked me?"
>
> I manage the entire thing and let me give you an example of a ticket from
> this morning.  The customer called in and said they unplugged some things
> and moved stuff around the house.  Since then their internet/phone
> (landline) has not been working.  CSR asked if device was plugged in to
> power.  It was not.  Customer plugged it in.
>
> You have to realize the people we're dealing with on this topic.  We get
> the calls for anything internet related at all because people don't use
> their brain to connect the situation of unplugging the internet company's
> box from power and it not working.  I wrote a script that takes all
> incoming calls and scans the customer's device to see if it has dying gasp
> and then posts to Slack.  That post comes up for 20% of our calls - people
> without power or unplugging it.
>
> On Tue, Dec 2, 2025 at 1:35 PM Tom Beecher <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I did.  I'm looking at it from the perspective of managing tier 1
> customer
> >> support issues through the tick box of enable IPv6 and managing their
> >> subnets.  Implementation for me doesn't stop once it's enabled on the
> >> router.
> >
> >
> > Not picking on you specifically here, but it's generally funny to hear
> > "none of my users ask for V6" , then "my support will be run over with V6
> > setup questions". :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 1, 2025 at 3:09 PM Josh Luthman <[email protected]
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> >Read my entire message please. That statement was speaking to the
> >> implementation issues.
> >>
> >> I did.  I'm looking at it from the perspective of managing tier 1
> >> customer support issues through the tick box of enable IPv6 and managing
> >> their subnets.  Implementation for me doesn't stop once it's enabled on
> the
> >> router.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Dec 1, 2025 at 2:48 PM Tom Beecher <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> That's absolutely not true.  Tier 1 support will have to deal with v6
> >>>> issues.  Customers will have additional issues due to IPv6.
> Absolutely
> >>>> more than a v4 only network (today, not speaking for the future).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Read my entire message please. That statement was speaking to the
> >>> implementation issues.
> >>>
> >>> I addressed (separately) the support aspects. Are there cases where v6
> >>> specifically causes customer issues? Yes. Are those cases exceedingly
> rare
> >>> these days? Yes. While things happen, the vast majority of user facing
> >>> stuff these days follows Happy Eyeballs pretty good, and Just Works
> when
> >>> you have both 4 and 6 available.
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Dec 1, 2025 at 2:28 PM Josh Luthman via NANOG <
> >>> [email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> >Yes there can be some things to shake out to implement it, but once
> >>>> those
> >>>> are done, they're done.
> >>>>
> >>>> That's absolutely not true.  Tier 1 support will have to deal with v6
> >>>> issues.  Customers will have additional issues due to IPv6.
> Absolutely
> >>>> more than a v4 only network (today, not speaking for the future).
> >>>>
> >>>> >What are your end users talking to that is IPv4-only these days,
> >>>> because
> >>>> it’s not much pretty much all the e-mail/cloud/office/docs things are
> >>>> IPv6
> >>>> these days, and yeah it’s harder to remember 2620:fe::fe than 9.9.9.9
> >>>> but
> >>>> who besides a few of us still have phone numbers memorized either
> these
> >>>> days?
> >>>>
> >>>> Little websites named after a forest and an auction website for old
> junk
> >>>> (Amazon and Ebay).
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Dec 1, 2025 at 2:23 PM Jared Mauch via NANOG <
> >>>> [email protected]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > > On Dec 1, 2025, at 2:06 PM, Tom Beecher via NANOG <
> >>>> [email protected]>
> >>>> > wrote:
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > >>
> >>>> > >>> this thread has done nothing except rehash the same viewpoints
> >>>> that get
> >>>> > >> discussed ad nauseam for the last however many years.
> >>>> > >>
> >>>> > >> I'm not sure if you just don't see it or you're being funny.
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > > It's a correct statement.
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > > "IPv6 doesn't work" : Google's stats show that just shy of 50% of
> >>>> all
> >>>> > their
> >>>> > > traffic is native V6. Most of the largest CDNs will give you
> similar
> >>>> > > answers. Yes there can be some things to shake out to implement
> it,
> >>>> but
> >>>> > > once those are done, they're done.
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > > "My customers don't ask for it." : Customers don't ask for IPv4.
> >>>> They
> >>>> > don't
> >>>> > > ask for NAT/CGNAT either. But you do those things I'm sure,
> because
> >>>> as
> >>>> > you
> >>>> > > said, they just want things to work.
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > > The answer is really money. You made a business decision not to
> >>>> incur the
> >>>> > > hardware/software/support costs to implement V6 for your
> customers.
> >>>> > That's
> >>>> > > fine, no shame in that. Maybe that will never be a problem for
> you,
> >>>> > maybe
> >>>> > > someday it will and it will cost you. Who knows.
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > > But just be honest and call it what it is, instead of half baked
> >>>> > statements
> >>>> > > that have been repeated for decades.
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Exactly.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Talking to friends at companies that do social networking stuff
> pretty
> >>>> > much all their traffic (over 90%) is from mobile devices, and when I
> >>>> look
> >>>> > at the big 3 mobile networks in the US they all do IPv6.  Their
> MVNO’s
> >>>> > might vary, but the main networks do IPv6.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > I find myself having to tether off their networks when I’m on IPv4
> >>>> only
> >>>> > networks to access things like my hypervisors and other assets that
> >>>> are
> >>>> > IPv6-only because they have superior networking these days.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > If you are doing IPv4-only, you are only harming yourself long-term.
> >>>> The
> >>>> > solutions are there for all the things you think you will encounter.
> >>>> For
> >>>> > the most part it’s 96 more bits, no magic.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Yes there are a few nuances to be aware of, like proxy-arp saves a
> >>>> lot of
> >>>> > people when they do kinky things in IPv4 and proxy-NDP is there, but
> >>>> not in
> >>>> > the same way on many platforms.  One of the last big hurdles out
> >>>> there was
> >>>> > IPv6 support for VTEP in FRR in my mind and that gap was recently
> >>>> closed.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > I also happen to think that Apple got it wrong when they rolled
> >>>> private
> >>>> > relay out, they kept the inbound tunnel protocol to outbound proxy
> >>>> behavior
> >>>> > on the same address family when they could have upgraded it on the
> >>>> outbound
> >>>> > side to IPv6 which would have closed the gap even more.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > What are your end users talking to that is IPv4-only these days,
> >>>> because
> >>>> > it’s not much pretty much all the e-mail/cloud/office/docs things
> are
> >>>> IPv6
> >>>> > these days, and yeah it’s harder to remember 2620:fe::fe than
> 9.9.9.9
> >>>> but
> >>>> > who besides a few of us still have phone numbers memorized either
> >>>> these
> >>>> > days?
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Do you need a ton of IPv4 space?  Not really, but if you’re a cable
> >>>> > company like RCN, yeah you’re not doing any upgrades, but if you are
> >>>> > leaving assets on IPv4 just because you are leaving them on IPv4,
> >>>> then at
> >>>> > some point you are just wasting money.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Send it to me and Tom so we can buy more hockey tickets.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > - Jared
> >>>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>> > NANOG mailing list
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>>
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> >>>
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