Lots of 1M tcam fib limits in older gear.......
So yeah, its the same problem, bigger numbers and still not solved in
any sort of non-painful or expensive way.
I think Ill explore the google path and paper on it again.
Joe
Mike Hammett wrote:
Then please bless the world with the right way.
You acknowledge that not every router in a network needs to be fully
DFZ capable, but then crap on my desire to have more than a default
route in one.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Tom Beecher" <beec...@beecher.cc>
*To: *"Mike Hammett" <na...@ics-il.net>
*Cc: *"Mel Beckman" <m...@beckman.org>, "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org>
*Sent: *Thursday, January 5, 2023 9:55:38 AM
*Subject: *Re: SDN Internet Router (sir)
"The right tool for the job" gets into a religious argument in
assuming that one's way to do the job is the only reasonable way
to do the job
I disagree that it's religious. I completely agree there are locations
in networks that having full DFZ capable routers doesn't make
technical or economic sense. But there have long been different
products for those different use cases.
To perhaps explain my viewpoint better,(and perhaps I didn't properly
comprehend the problem you're aiming to solve) :
If you are trying to use SDN stuff to shuffle routes on and off a box
because you have the wrong sized routers in place, then I would argue
you're doing it wrong.
If you are trying to use SDN stuff to (as Christopher mentioned) make
decisions that are not strictly LPM, and the equipment you have cannot
do that, then that's different and entirely reasonable.
If the second use case is more of what you were asking, then I
apologize for misunderstanding.
On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 9:57 AM Mike Hammett <na...@ics-il.net
<mailto:na...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
"The right tool for the job" gets into a religious argument in
assuming that one's way to do the job is the only reasonable way
to do the job.
Large networks historically have a very poor (IMO) model of
gigantic iron in a few locations, which results in sub-optimal
routing for the rest of their network between those large POPs.
I've heard time and time again that someone buying service from a
major network in say New Orleans has a first hop of Dallas or
Atlanta. I agree that full-route capable routers need to be in the
large, central locations, but it isn't cost effective to have them
at every POP, especially if you're a last-mile provider.
I'd go into more examples of where it doesn't make sense to have
full-route routers everywhere, but I'm afraid that the Internet
would then focus on the examples instead of the core idea of
intelligently putting routes into the FIBs of low-FIB routers
throughout my network.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
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<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Tom Beecher" <beec...@beecher.cc <mailto:beec...@beecher.cc>>
*To: *"Mike Hammett" <na...@ics-il.net <mailto:na...@ics-il.net>>
*Cc: *"Mel Beckman" <m...@beckman.org <mailto:m...@beckman.org>>,
"NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org <mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
*Sent: *Wednesday, January 4, 2023 7:36:58 AM
*Subject: *Re: SDN Internet Router (sir)
Disagree that it’s a line in the sand. It’s use the right tool for
the job.
If a device is low FIB, it’s that way for a reason. There are
plenty of ways to massage that with policy and software, depending
on capabilities , but at the end of the day, trying to sort 10
pounds of shit to store in a 5 pound bag is eventually going to
end up the same way.
On Tue, Jan 3, 2023 at 13:18 Mike Hammett <na...@ics-il.net
<mailto:na...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
There are likely more networks with 10 gigabit or less total
external capacity than there are with more.
Creating imaginary lines in the sand doesn't really help anyone.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Mel Beckman" <m...@beckman.org <mailto:m...@beckman.org>>
*To: *"Mike Hammett" <na...@ics-il.net <mailto:na...@ics-il.net>>
*Cc: *"NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org <mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
*Sent: *Tuesday, January 3, 2023 10:57:34 AM
*Subject: *Re: SDN Internet Router (sir)
It’s not a problem, due to cheap, plentiful high-speed memory
and rapid prefix search silicon in backbone routers. The
entire Internet routing table consumes at most a few gigabytes
when fully structured (and only a few hundred Mbytes stored
flat). That’s less memory than your average laptop sports.
Even in the worst case scenario, where every network decides
to announce only its most specific prefixes, the BGP backbone
would temporarily enter an oscillating state that generates a
large number of routing updates into the inter-domain routing
space. In this case, BGP route damping will quickly suppress
the crazies while the backbone stabilizes.
Small routers should not be taking full tables, since there is
no point to them being in the default free zone. For large
routers, neither memory nor CPU speed are an issue. High-speed
routers operating in the default-free zone have a critical
path in the forwarding decision for each packet: it needs to
take less than the inter-packet arrival time for minimum-sized
IP packets.
This is easy to achieve with today’s hardware. A router line
card with an aggregate line rate across all of its
point-to-point interfaces of 10Tbps (readily available in
today’s gear) can process packets with just a handful of
cycles in the FIB Ternary Content Addressable Memory (TCAM)
using ASIC-assisted lookups. TCAM is the most expensive
component you’re paying for in such a router. It’s not cheap,
but backbone routers don’t need to be cheap. They just need to
not be memory-constrained.
-mel via cell
On Jan 3, 2023, at 7:47 AM, Mike Hammett <na...@ics-il.net
<mailto:na...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
https://github.com/dbarrosop/sir
I came across this over the weekend. Given that the
project was abandoned six years ago, are there any other
efforts with a similar goal (more intelligently placing
routes into FIBs of low-FIB capacity devices?
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
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<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>