Someone's typically paying the difference in a non-profit IX. Someone's 
donating piles of cash, free dark fiber, free colo, etc. You're either paying 
your own way, or you have a port subsidized by someone else. There's not 
necessarily anything wrong with that, but you have to make sure you count that 
when you talk about "cost". 


They're also over twice the size, and in half the number of buildings (per 
PeeringDB, anyway). They've also been around over twice as long. Scale helps 
with cost. 




----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com> 
To: "Mike Hammett" <na...@ics-il.net> 
Cc: "Mehmet Akcin" <meh...@akcin.net>, "NANOG Mailing List" <nanog@nanog.org> 
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 8:34:32 AM 
Subject: Re: Non-profit IX vs. neutral for-profit IX 



http://micemn.net/services.html 



MICE in Minneapolis is a great IX that we are on and their port fees are very 
reasonable. They used to be completely free up until this year. Even so, their 
fees are virtually nothing which encourages more operators to connect to it 
versus For-Profit IX's where sometimes the fees are almost as much as transit. 


For example Midwest-IX is $9,300 per year for a 10G port but MICE is only $250 
per year. That's a HUGE difference and MICE also has way more peers and traffic 
overall due to how easy and cheap it is to join. 


On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 8:27 AM Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Not all transit is cheap and not all transit is good quality, regardless of 
what it costs. ;-) 

At our IX, we regularly see clients whose total network usage goes up once 
they're on the IX. 




----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 



From: "Mehmet Akcin" < meh...@akcin.net > 
To: "Clayton Zekelman" < clay...@mnsi.net > 
Cc: "Mike Hammett" < na...@ics-il.net >, "NANOG Mailing List" < nanog@nanog.org 
>, "Tim Raphael" < raphael.timo...@gmail.com > 
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 8:19:43 AM 
Subject: Re: Non-profit IX vs. neutral for-profit IX 



Torix and Six are great examples. 


If you want to be for profit, make sure to publish port pricing and keep it 
fair. Transit is cheap and good quality 



On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 08:14 Clayton Zekelman < clay...@mnsi.net > wrote: 

<blockquote>


TorIX is a great example of a not for profit IX that is very successful. 

https://www.torix.ca/ 

A very dedicated team of people provide an incredible level of service. 

Thave a very transparent process. Their pricing is listed up front on their 
website: 

https://www.torix.ca/peering/#pricing 



At 09:03 AM 21/12/2018, Mike Hammett wrote: 

<blockquote>
As far as neutral, I meant separate from the datacenters in which they're 
housed. People in NA seem to think there are only two kinds of IXes, Equinix, 
DRT, Coresite types and NWAX, SIX, MICE types. 



----- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 


From: "Tim Raphael" < raphael.timo...@gmail.com > 
To: "NANOG Mailing List" < nanog@nanog.org > 
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 8:39:42 PM 
Subject: Re: Non-profit IX vs. neutral for-profit IX 

The other point to consider is that a NFP can justify more locations and offer 
services (such as extended reach) that don’t have the same profit margins or 
ROI as for-profits. 
This often leads to greater value to those with smaller networks and fewer 
customers allowing them to grow and expand without increased aggregation or 
transit costs. This in-turn leads to a richer array of providers and chips away 
at the monopolies in niche markets. 

The NFP IXP I work for focuses on providing value to the broader community and 
the Internet as a whole - especially somewhere like Australia which has unique 
constraints. 

Additionally, “Neutral†and For-Profit doesn’t always compute in my mind, 
there will always be commercial alliances that lead to not-total neutrality. 
When a NFP is owned by it’s members there has to be 100% transparency in 
organisational decisions around member funds and resources which ensures 
accountability reliability. 



<blockquote>


- Tim 


> On 21 Dec 2018, at 3:58 am, Brielle Bruns < br...@2mbit.com > wrote: 
> 
> On 12/20/2018 12:51 PM, Aaron wrote: 
>> Probably price. Also perception of value. If you're a for profit enterprise 
>> then they're paying for interconnection plus your bump. If you're non-profit 
>> the perception is that there is a larger value because there's no bump. 
>> Whether that's true or not, who knows but that's the perception I've heard. 
> 
> Depending on the size of the non-profit, I'd almost compare it to how the 
> hospitals are here in Boise. 
> 
> The non-profits are oversized, monopolistic, price gouging, etc. Their care 
> can be pretty meh, esp since they bought up all the little independent 
> clinics (yay, ER pricing for a basic family clinic visit). 
> 
> The for-profit smaller clinics and hospitals run a pretty tight ship, better 
> value for their money, service is very good, and compete with one another for 
> who has the best service. 
> 
> People think they are getting 'better' because they are going to a place that 
> is supposed to be run to benefit people over profit, but alas, you'd be very 
> very wrong. 
> -- 
> Brielle Bruns 
> The Summit Open Source Development Group 
> http://www.sosdg.org / http://www.ahbl.org 
> 



</blockquote>

-- 

Clayton Zekelman 
Managed Network Systems Inc. (MNSi) 
3363 Tecumseh Rd. E 
Windsor, Ontario 
N8W 1H4 

tel. 519-985-8410 
fax. 519-985-8409 
</blockquote>
-- 

Mehmet 
+1-424-298-1903 

</blockquote>



-- 


Darin Steffl 
Minnesota WiFi 
www.mnwifi.com 
507-634-WiFi 
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