You can use airgaps in transformers in some cases but this design should be 
without one according to Ed.

I am using ferrite pot cores in some other designs where they are wound as 
a transformer but where the Q-value is of importance and there I use an 
airgap and also a trimmer through the center to adjust them for a minimum 
Q-value at a certain frequency.

Q-value according to TDK: 
https://product.tdk.com/en/contact/faq/inductors-0003.html and also at 
Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_factor

This article explains airgap in inductors/transformers somewhat: 
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/why-do-we-provide-air-gap-usually-inductor-designs-transformer-p

So sometimes it is a choice depending on design criteria like Q-value and 
material used in the transformer. There are normal laminated transformers 
that use an airgap too, but most mains transformers do not.

/Martin



On Wednesday, 1 September 2021 at 15:11:31 UTC+2 Paul Andrews wrote:

> Martin,
>
> I wonder why there should be no air gap?
>
> - Paul
>
> On Wednesday, September 1, 2021 at 1:55:30 AM UTC-4 Dekatron42 wrote:
>
>> Paul,
>>
>> I'll ask him, but a quick search at Digikey showed both some RM10 and 
>> ETD29 cores, but only a few. Finding Ferrite cores today is not easy, I 
>> have searched some for other projects and they aren't usually stocked in 
>> the ranges that the manufacturers make them, and if you want something 
>> outside what is available in stock it becomes very expensive as you'll have 
>> to by thousands if not more. I usually try the ones they have and have to 
>> live with that since I can't buy the thousands needed to get the perfect 
>> one. I'll ask Ed to have a look and see if any of the ones that are stocked 
>> will do - just remember that they will have to be the transformer type 
>> without an airgap between the center pieces to work in this application.
>>
>> /Martin
>>
>> On Wednesday, 1 September 2021 at 04:26:30 UTC+2 Paul Andrews wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Martin
>>>
>>> I tried to find a suitable core at digikey, but their parameters don’t 
>>> map very well to the equation that Ed gives. Could he take a look at what 
>>> they have and perhaps recommend something. For simplicity’s sake I just 
>>> looked at toroids 
>>> https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/ferrite-cores/936?s=N4IgTCBcDaICoHsBOCCWATAhgGwAQGNkBTAZxAF0BfIA
>>>
>>> Thanks - Paul
>>> On Friday, August 27, 2021 at 8:45:56 AM UTC-4 Dekatron42 wrote:
>>>
>>>> Since transformers isn't my best area, I only have basic understanding 
>>>> of the intricacies but I have experimented some with different 
>>>> transformers 
>>>> in different cases like when driving Trochotrons and Dekatrons I decided 
>>>> to 
>>>> ask an acquaintance who has worked with transformers. His name is Ed 
>>>> Dinning, I got to know him over at the UKVRRR forum (UK Vintage Radio 
>>>> Repair and Restoration forum: https://www.vintage-radio.net/forum/), 
>>>> he told me you are welcome to contact him via me so that his email is 
>>>> somewhat protected - if you ask him anything related to the 
>>>> VFD-drivers it would be kind if you could post something here in this 
>>>> forum 
>>>> so we all can learn from it.
>>>>
>>>> This is his answer to my question on what transformer to chose for the 
>>>> driver in the article, it sure helped me and I hope it helps anyone who 
>>>> wants to experiment with this driver:
>>>>
>>>> "Hi Martin, as it operates about 50/100KHz virtually any ferrite should 
>>>> do. It should be a transformer type with no air gap.
>>>> The turns are normally based on the transformer equation for square 
>>>> waves
>>>>
>>>> N= V/ 4 * F * B* Ae
>>>>
>>>> N=turns, V=volts F=frequency,B= flux density, typically 200/250mT for a 
>>>> ferrite, Ae the centre pole area in M^2
>>>>
>>>> The actual losses come out later on in the design process and are not 
>>>> part of the initial criteria
>>>>
>>>> Copper sizing is normally based on 3A per mm^2 of cross sectional area
>>>>
>>>> The turns figure he gives looks about right for something like an RM10 
>>>> core, or you could try an EE25 or an ETD29 core in sat F44 materials 
>>>> ETD's are the core of choice for this type of application and should be 
>>>> readily available.
>>>>
>>>> The more turns that are used the lower the iron losses and the cooler 
>>>> the core runs, but the copper losses increase unless fatter copper is used.
>>>> Skin effect will be of minor importance at your frequency
>>>>
>>>> It would also work on a normal laminated core at 50Hz which should not 
>>>> be too big as you can run that at up to 1.5T flux density.
>>>> Regulation could be a normal type of regulator set for constant current.
>>>>
>>>> Always many choices in Engineering
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,  Ed
>>>>
>>>> Ed Dinning Retired Engineer"
>>>>
>>>> /Martin
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, 25 August 2021 at 23:02:48 UTC+2 Paul Andrews wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> When I have time, I will try the driver at the link Martin gave (
>>>>> http://www.nutsvolts.com/media-files/Forum-Articles/QA_201110.pdf), 
>>>>> but without the transformer initially. As far as I can tell, the 
>>>>> transformer is just to make the VFD drive isolated so you can pull it up 
>>>>> above ground.
>>>>>
>>>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web, visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/8943cc8d-1219-44d0-9f19-62357cdf4951n%40googlegroups.com.

Reply via email to