That's the one. Thanks Martin. I've spoken to Richard about getting more PCBs made (I have some MM5314's that need a good home) but he can't locate the board files.
On Tue, Mar 7, 2023 at 7:54 AM Dekatron42 <[email protected]> wrote: > A quick Googling of MM5314N and Numitron finds this webpage: > http://www.tuberadios.com/numitron/ with schematic that is said to be > compliments of Westdave. > > /Martin > > On Tuesday, 7 March 2023 at 16:41:24 UTC+1 Nicholas Stock wrote: > >> If I'm not mistaken, the clock kit that Martin is referring to is this >> one.. >> >> http://rrsignal.com/projects.htm >> >> I have the schematic at home somewhere and will dig it out. There is a >> dimming mod using a transistor/pot that works quite nicely. Mine has been >> running for about 8 years now with no issues..... it uses the MM5314 clock >> chip, so no software to be seen and is mains referenced, but keeps >> remarkably good time over long periods (it sits next to a few GPS >> disciplined clocks). >> >> Cheers, >> >> Nick >> >> On Tue, Mar 7, 2023 at 7:18 AM Batareyka <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> There are two ways to solve this problem. >>> 1. Software, but as the author of the topic, there is no software and >>> the possibility of editing it (I >>> I think so), then method number 2 remains. >>> 2. The 4511 chip has a wide power supply range from 3-16 volts. Put the >>> power regulator and turn it up to 4 volts, which will change the output >>> power of the lamp filaments accordingly. >>> Checked more than once. >>> >>> вторник, 7 марта 2023 г. в 17:02:08 UTC+2, [email protected]: >>> >> Martin, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> How did you do that? (schematic) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Problem with a pot (or any resistor) is that you would need one for >>>> each element (7 per tube) since you cannot put one in the common line. Each >>>> filament draws about 22mA, so depending on the number displayed, the >>>> current would be anywhere between 44 and 154 mA. This would result in >>>> different voltage drops depending on the number displayed. It would result >>>> in uneven light output. Same reason why you could not use a single current >>>> regulator pre tube, but one per filament would be needed. A voltage >>>> regulator (such as a simple diode) does not have that disadvantage. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Bill v >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On >>>> Behalf Of *martin martin >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 07, 2023 9:09 AM >>>> *To:* [email protected] >>>> *Subject:* Re: [neonixie-l] Re: IV-9 numitron lifespan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> How about this clock I built in the early 80s? 5314 clock chip. I >>>> used a 1k pot for dimming. Has been running for many moons now! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ~ >>>> >>>> *[email protected]* >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 7, 2023 at 5:55 AM gregebert <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Under "normal" circumstances, I agree that individual current >>>> regulators add a lot of circuitry. The reality is that most tubes are no >>>> longer manufactured, so their numbers are dwindling as the price increases, >>>> essentially irreplaceable. You wouldn't believe the lengths I went towards >>>> protecting NIMO tubes in the clock I'm still working on. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I've debated about building a numitron clock, and the route I think I >>>> will go with uses LED 'filaments' that are used in retro light bulbs. >>>> Filaments scare the heck out of me because they will fail from thermal >>>> cycling, but there is no alternative for NIMO and VFD displays. >>>> >>>> On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 11:35:22 AM UTC-3 [email protected] >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Using a current limiter sounds like a LOT of circuitry, 7 times the >>>> number of tubes? I simply use a forward biased diode to drop the voltage, >>>> about 0.7 for a standard silicon diode, and about 0.3 for a Schottky. That >>>> requires only one or perhaps two diodes for the whole set of tubes. Perhaps >>>> not as accurate, but definitely a whole lot simpler. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On >>>> Behalf Of *gregebert >>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 06, 2023 8:13 AM >>>> *To:* neonixie-l <[email protected]> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [neonixie-l] Re: IV-9 numitron lifespan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Very good info, Moses. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From that, I would target the operating current well-below 20mA to >>>> prolong the life of the display. You could use an NPN current-limiter >>>> (driver) driven from 5V TTL logic. Let me know if you need circuit details, >>>> but it's a very simple design (1 NPN + 1 emitter resistor). As a starting >>>> point, a 270 ohm emitter resistor will limit current to 16mA. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Do you hear any noise with your PWM running at 1600Hz ? If not, I >>>> would stick with PWM and not use the NPN driver, as it's not necessary. As >>>> long as the PWM cycle-time is shorter than the thermal time-constant of the >>>> filament (probably a few milliseconds), you should be fine. I think you can >>>> measure the thermal time-constant of the filament with a phototransistor >>>> and a scope. Starting at a low PWM frequency, the phototransistor will show >>>> fluctuations in the bulb's intensity. As the frequency is increased, you >>>> should see the amplitude decrease towards zero. I've never actually done >>>> this but I'm pretty sure it will work. You have to use a phototransistor >>>> (or photodiode); a CdS photosensor will have too-slow of a response time. >>>> >>>> On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 2:37:45 AM UTC-3 Moses wrote: >>>> >>>> The TI CD4511B datasheet lists the lists the *minimum* high level >>>> output (at 5v VDD) of 4.1v but typical is 4.55v, maybe others are >>>> different? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/cd4511b.pdf >>>> >>>> At 4.55v the segment current on the IV-9 is going to be about 25ma. >>>> Typical IV-9 segment current is about 20ma I believe, so that would be a >>>> 25% overdrive. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I've put up a drive voltage vs segment current table on my site, maybe >>>> it's useful to someone: http://www.neonixie.com/IV-9-6D-RR/#tech >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I settled with powering the tubes in my designs in one of two ways.. >>>> 5.0v direct with a recommended PWM of about 65% (the 165 (out of 255) value >>>> in the table) OR 5v through a regular silicon diode, dropping the voltage >>>> to about 4.2v at the tube and PWM that to 76%. Both result in a segment >>>> current of 20ma. Don't know if one or the other is better in regards to >>>> lifetime, I was not able to find any official sources of information. I >>>> experimented with driving them using a 3.3v regulator.. but at that voltage >>>> they were a bit dim. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> NOTE: The IV-9 datasheet does mention to avoid running the tubes at a >>>> frequency between 105 and 1000 Hz, presumably to avoid mechanical >>>> resonance. I elected to run them at 1600 Hz. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I looked through some of my testing data.. at a segment current of 3mA >>>> the segments are visible, 2mA they are "barely visible" and at 1mA I noted >>>> them as not visible. Keeping the unlit segments warm with a slight current >>>> seems to make the most sense to me. It's all software on my clock so maybe >>>> an option for the next revision. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> That's all I know so far. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> -Moses >>>> >>>> On Saturday, March 4, 2023 at 5:52:05 AM UTC-8 [email protected] >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Chris, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The numitrons are driven by a 4511 decoder, and according to their data >>>> sheets the max. output at that voltage is 4.1 V, so that is well within >>>> specification for the tube. Yes, I agree, lowering the voltage even further >>>> should increase lifespan. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Bill v >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On >>>> Behalf Of *Chris >>>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2023 8:19 AM >>>> *To:* neonixie-l <[email protected]> >>>> *Subject:* [neonixie-l] Re: IV-9 numitron lifespan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> While i am not sure for the IV9 numitrons have a look at the DA2300 >>>> lifetime expectancy, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Basically reducing the voltage increases the life expectancy >>>> exponentially. >>>> >>>> So i usually run my numitrons at 4.5V or lower and have had no issues >>>> so far. >>>> >>>> On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 8:05:48 PM UTC+1 [email protected] wrote: >>>> >>>> I seem to recall there was some discussion on the life expectancy of >>>> IV-9 numitrons some time ago. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In 2015 I built a number of clocks with these tubes, and they started >>>> failing last year. The clock in the picture is on my bench now, the three >>>> good tubes were replaced in November last year. So today all 6 tubes will >>>> be replaced. I have replaced all 6 tubes on a few other clocks also. One or >>>> more segments will no longer light up, and I do not see any blackening of >>>> the glass tube (The black you see in the picture is my permanent marker, s >>>> I will not replace the wrong tube when I disconnect the power). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The tubes are driven directly from a 4511 chip on a 5V power line. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> There does not seem to be any order in which they fail, so I do not >>>> have the feeling that any of the tubes are significantly impacted by >>>> thermal stresses from flashing on and off. I would say based on my >>>> experience with them, the expected lifespan is about 7 years of continues >>>> use. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Bill v >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/81b5b7e6-d476-4b83-9a8e-c9d6cc468db9n%40googlegroups.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/81b5b7e6-d476-4b83-9a8e-c9d6cc468db9n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> >>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/13ceb519-9b4d-469e-9e03-8d844e317239n%40googlegroups.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/13ceb519-9b4d-469e-9e03-8d844e317239n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/e87e8845-5e21-4b9d-9408-49ee93a3578dn%40googlegroups.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/e87e8845-5e21-4b9d-9408-49ee93a3578dn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> >>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CAKYv7NTaviwTXv09wHvzZ3mHt5PFK-5GRSRBArjLtmKp78GekQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CAKYv7NTaviwTXv09wHvzZ3mHt5PFK-5GRSRBArjLtmKp78GekQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "neonixie-l" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> >> To view this discussion on the web, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/1d59be9a-50d3-4fa4-b783-f349b6be7d1dn%40googlegroups.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/1d59be9a-50d3-4fa4-b783-f349b6be7d1dn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "neonixie-l" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/9d522a7e-0a80-4bf2-9f5b-854289216bccn%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/9d522a7e-0a80-4bf2-9f5b-854289216bccn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group. 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