the program you talk is this?
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rmhttp/downloadtrial/radio4/inourtime/inourtime_20070419-0900_40_st.mp3
i hope i don't miss many things because it is in english, ajj
the last thing i've been thinking about was the fact of improvisation.
i wonder if it could be said that humans tend to improvise in symmetric
patterns
and...
this is stupid, but funny... i've been thinking about the new criatures
in science fict movies, for instance, and all them, as far as i
remember, are symmetric, no matter if they have body of man and head of
fish, or they resemble sort-of-horses... they all are symmetric. even
the characters of pixar's monsters s.a. were symmetric.
lord voldemort is a symmetric criature, all rowling's immaginarium...
if there is any fiction criature asymmetric as siniestra, please, do
tell me...
neil jenkins escribió:
God symmetry wasn't discussed, although the subject of religion came
up when they talked about the Alhambra, saying that as pictures of
animals or anything with a soul were not allowed to be depicted, they
used geometric symmetry to express the infinite complexity of god
I found some interesting historical references lookin at quadratic
equations in wikipedia [
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadratic_equation ] which noted Turkish
and Indian mathematicians solving these equations, notable Brahmagupta
in the 7th century, who first discovered the negative solutions (ie
the square root of 4 is 2 or it's symmetric -2) he also popularised
the concept of the number 0
In terms of art, the discussion also raised the issue of artists and
their use of symmetry and also disrupting it. poetry has always had an
innate symmetry to me in phrasing and rhythm -
"Traditional meaning of symmetry
The meaning of this term went through a fabulous transformation during
its use for dozens of centuries. The proper translation of the Greek
term symmetria – (from the prefix syn [common] and the noun metros
[measure]) – is 'common measure'. The Greeks interpreted this word, as
the harmony of the different parts of an object, the good proportions
between its constituent parts. Later this meaning was transferred to
e.g., the rhythm of poems, of music, the cosmos ('well-ordered system
of the universe as contrast of chaos'). Therefore the Latin and the
modern European languages used its translations like harmony,
proportion until the Renaissance. In wider sense, balance, equilibrium
belonged also to this family of synonyms. Some way symmetry was
always related to beauty, truth and good. (These relative meanings
determined its application in the arts, the sciences, and the ethics,
respectively.) Symmetry was not only related to such positive values,
it became even a symbol of seeking for perfection."
[ http://symmetry.hu/definition.html ]
This program came at a perfect moment for me as i was re-working the
maths i'd used in the spirograp[h]d interface for Pall Thayer's PANSE
[ http://130.208.220.190/panse/gallery.php ] - the complex set of
sliders aren't that easy to see in terms of a physical spirograph set
and i wanted to work out how to create the patterns by choosing outer
ring size, disc size and pen position - alot simpler to conceptualise.
last night i listened to the program again, and inadvertantly left a
Philip Glass track [ In The Upper Room: Dance IX ] playing, the
resulting mix was pure serendepity
:) inpsired
On 21 Apr 2007, at 11:06, @-_q @@ wrote:
neil, thanks a lot...
years ago, i wrote a short storie, sinister,
in spanish siniestra
which can be the name of a woman, a property of a sort of darkness,
or it can refer to left sides too...
that woman had a problem, a progresive sickness... her left side was
melting down, sort of melting down...
the idea shocked me so much that i made a drawing of a nude women sat
on a elegant armchair with her right side like a beautiful woman and
with her left side like a mess mass hunged at her right side of the
body.
this was funny, but there is more...
i've already share with you that i suffer dislexy, even typing, not
only writing... i change b and p
i'm really interested on the differences between our 2 cerebral
hemispheres...
marchall mc luhan worked with it, and each hemisphere have a property.
but the funny thing is that the capacity of language or motion or
making music is not placed simetric in our brain... or i have not the
right information...
....
did the speakers talk about god or a similar entity?
did they lucubrate about god symmetry?
as far as i've read (the 3 books and other religious text), god is
not worry about symetry, but he "created" a symmetric nature.
as far as i remember, no kabala writer wrote about the symmetric
event... sufi poetry or bagavad ghita...
... may be sacred music (christian, jew, sufi or hinduist...)
...
did gilles deleuze talked about symmetrics in the rizoma?
i did not find it.
i think we have french members in NetB that can know about it.
i mean, there may be members in NetB who know more about what i've
commented... if i'm wrong in any hypothesis, please, tell me, even if
i talk from the wrong point of view... the wrong place to watch at it.
---
in my creative work, i always break symmetry because i feel my brain
when it stands in front of asymmetries: i feel physically how it works !
one of the things i'm doing is working at the input of sound: i
record my voice from left speaker to right speaker and so on, and
that makes a sort of brain massage... try it...
what my brain feels in front of symmetries is... relief !
and, for instances, drawing symmetric mandalas smooth me down
isn't it funny?
***
**
*
neil jenkins escribió:
tricky to transpose, but here goes..
early neolithic sculptures in regular forms, cognitive recognition
of symmmetric forms (by animals/humans and artists), cuniform,
babylonian maths and greek geometry, methods for solving (and
working out) quadratic and cubic equations (respectively) - (method
and conic sections), algebra in place of derived solution tables,
mathematical transformations and group theory (*no transformation is
part of the subset of symmetrical transformations, or 'operations' -
nothing is something.. ), the alhambra, bell ringing, the lack of a
solution for quintic equations and 'atoms' of symmetry - shapes
divided by shapes, indivisible symmetries
phew.. i won't start on the last 20 minutes and misquote einstein :)
On 19 Apr 2007, at 23:22, @-_q @@ wrote:
neil, if you go,
could you write just a little bit of what you heard there?
(pleasepleaseplease)
neil jenkins escribió:
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rmhttp/downloadtrial/radio4/inourtime/inourtime_20070419-0900_40_st.mp3
-->
SYMMETRY
Today we will be discussing symmetry, from the most perfect forms
in nature, like the snowflake and the butterfly, to our
perceptions of beauty in the human face. There's symmetry too in
most of the laws that govern our physical world.
The Greek philosopher Aristotle described symmetry as one of the
greatest forms of beauty to be found in the mathematical sciences,
while the French poet Paul Valery went further, declaring; “The
universe is built on a plan, the profound symmetry of which is
somehow present in the inner structure of our intellect”.
The story of symmetry tracks an extraordinary shift from its role
as an aesthetic model - found in the tiles in the Alhambra and
Bach's compositions - to becoming a key tool to understanding how
the physical world works. It provides a major breakthrough in
mathematics with the development of group theory in the 19th
century. And it is the unexpected breakdown of symmetry at
sub-atomic level that is so tantalising for contemporary quantum
physicists.
So why is symmetry so prevalent and appealing in both art and
nature? How does symmetry enable us to grapple with monstrous
numbers? And how might symmetry contribute to the elusive Theory
of Everything?
Contributors
Fay Dowker, Reader in Theoretical Physics at Imperial College, London
Marcus du Sautoy, Professor of Mathematics at the University of
Oxford
Ian Stewart, Professor of Mathematics at the University of Warwick
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