Hi Chun Lee,

Same here,

It would be great to hear more about your experiences on the project, 
from yourself, Pei or both.

Perhaps a discussion on here, or a journal elsewhere (on furtherfield or 
a blog elsewhere), whatever feels right.

chat soon.

marc
> Dear all:
>
> i am glad that the DIWO issue seems to have been resolved:) i will be willing 
> to share more of my experience with the playaround project, if 
> such opportunity comes up. else i am sure pei herslef would be happy to 
> present it more officially and hopefully open up more possibilities.
>
> till next time.
>
> cheers
>
> chun
>
> marc garrett said :
>   
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I have posted a response to Pei's very interesting post which he 
>> originally sent to me personally. The group which Pei is part of, are 
>> pasting copies of the discussion on their own site here so I thought I 
>> might as well share the dialogue - 
>> http://2010.playaround.cc/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=16 - you can 
>> read other texts that may have been written by other collaborators from 
>> their end, also I believe.
>>
>> Anyway comment and share in the dialogue if you wish, it's all very 
>> interesting.
>>
>> wishing everyone well.
>>
>> marc
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Here is their project.
>>
>> playaround 2010 Electronic Art and Digital Environment Workshop – DIWO 
>> Culture (playaround10 – DIWO Culture).
>>
>> "playaround 2010 Electronic Art and Digital Environment Workshop – DIWO 
>> Culture;PlayAround10 is the third edition of an intensely parallel and 
>> collaborative workshop of mediating the creative use of FLOSS 
>> (Free/Libre Open Source Software) and DIY practices to an audience of 
>> young students and emerging artists of diverse backgrounds. It combines 
>> the knowledge creation and open distribution of new media technologies 
>> and contemporary art practices in a socially responsible and relevant 
>> context."
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/2ud73v6 (external link)
>>
>>
>> Hi Pei,
>>
>> Thank you for taking the time to discuss about 'DIWO'.
>>
>> Firstly, I would like to say that I think your project is excellent, it 
>> offers much value and is shifting and moving in directions which are 
>> incorporating agency and independent, creative thought and breaking 
>> through traditional concepts of learning and knowing; much needed in our 
>> world of over-mediated, mono-cultural dominated, top-down noise.
>>
>>  >certainly I do not ask for your understanding
>>
>> Of course, this may not matter to yourself particularly, but it matters 
>> to me. I feel it is essential, for the well being of our human psyches 
>> that we, as imaginative beings engage in exploring beyond the given 
>> protocols and mannerisms, that too often enslave our essential selves. I 
>> am also, interested in how people share ideas and progress through the 
>> activity of independent and scale free situations, in respect of how 
>> they (or we) become more empowered through each other's crossing over of 
>> different values and (socially constructed) cultures, or national 
>> identities and beyond. Seeing others and respecting their context(s) is, 
>> one of the most valuable gifts anyone can receive from another being, 
>> whether this be from one or many. In fact, you could say that I have 
>> made it my life's work to see other's and breath in, other people's 
>> imaginative journeys and witness their engagements, explorations and 
>> developments with (hopefully) an open mind.
>>
>> Like most of our projects, they come about through real experience. Not 
>> from academia, even though to accommodate and appreciate intellectual 
>> stimuli and contextual reasoning, it is important to read and understand 
>> other people's minds and their own journeys. But, we have grown as an 
>> independent arts, collective since 1997, and have not asked to be 
>> referenced by academics who have been writing about certain aspects of 
>> media art and technologically used, culture, because we have never been 
>> part of an institution, like so many of these individuals were and still 
>> are. We did this all off our own backs - with others - developing 
>> gradually, without the support of the more 'official' art, technology 
>> historians and theorists' recommendations. Even though, we have known 
>> that we have answered many of the questions asked around art and 
>> networked communities through the years, with our shared practice. For 
>> instance, I taught myself technology in the late eighties/early nineties 
>> - hacking phones, transmitting into car radios, exhibiting in subways, 
>> running pirate radio stations etc, and running art, anarchist BBS 
>> Systems before the Internet. So what I am saying here, is that my 
>> decision in not going the traditional route is all part of what 
>> furtherfield is now, along with others who have shared in building 
>> something that we feel is special, it is not built on privilege but hard 
>> work and critical learning, and it has been tough. Because unlike many 
>> of our peers in the say 'net.art' world, we have never believed in the 
>> notion of a singular, modernist conception of genius or have followed 
>> the trappings of trying to be famous. We have always wanted something 
>> more substantial and inclusive, rather than the trivial action of 
>> getting known and shutting the door to others afterwards. It is only in 
>> the recent years that we are beginning to recognized and respected for 
>> our 'complex' engagement and different approaches towards, life, 
>> communities, social contexts.
>>
>>  >BTW, even tho furtherfield made a milestone exhibition back in 2007,
>>  >i still think DIWO is a common phrase, just like Italo Calvino's great
>>  >title "invisible city" ... has already became a common phrase by its
>>  >often usages in many albums, art project world wide and transformed
>>  >into a sharable concept, some projects did referred to Calvino's book,
>>  >some doesn't. why? I do not think it is because of laziness or disregard,
>>  >because it is a good title also a state of mind shared commonly !! You
>>  >can't authorize a state of mind, that be crazy! should human society
>>  >operate only on the credit of others credit? Has human history ever
>>  >credit correctly? (those are the questions of confusion in me,
>>  >certainly I do not ask for your understanding)
>>
>> Our mutual conversation is based around some sense of understanding (or 
>> even some misunderstandings), and I would definitely want to understand 
>> and appreciate your context and reasonings in some way. Our dialogue is 
>> evidence that you may wish for some form of understanding, whether we 
>> agree with each other or not. If you read any of our texts you will 
>> notice that we never use the traditional terms that hegemonic art 
>> culture uses, such as innovative or the best artist, or genius, or 
>> milestone - for we feel that conforming to the 'Spectacle', of certain 
>> forms of language as a group, does not offer authenticity, or at least 
>> the potential of it.
>>
>> I agree that DIWO is now a common phrase, and I am proud that we have 
>> played some part in making it happen. We have accomplished something of 
>> value locally and internationally regarding the DIWO projects, and are 
>> glad that we have contributed in our own small way in bringing about 
>> DIWO as a term for alternative, creative practice for others to explore.
>>
>> D.I.W.O - (or Diwo's, or Diwo groups) Expanded from the original term 
>> known as D.I.Y. (Do It Yourself). D.I.W.O 'Do It With Others'. Is more 
>> representative of contemporary, collaborative - art practice which 
>> explores through the creative process of using networks, in a collective 
>> manner. marc garrett (2006-11-08) 
>> http://www.furtherfield.org/rosalind/definitions.pl?id=127
>>
>> We know John Hartley very well. One of the references you linked to is 
>> by John, called - ‘The Future is an Open Future.’ Cultural Studies at 
>> the End of the ‘Long Twentieth Century’ and the Beginning of the 
>> ‘Chinese Century.’ We have been working with John Hartley on various 
>> projects and discuss ideas regularly. I remember reading this article 
>> when it was first put online, and wondered why, when using the term 
>> DIWO, that he did not mentioning our own explorations on the 
>> collaborative term? And I suspect, even though 'he knew' that we had 
>> brought about the term DIWO, he also felt it should be a common phrase. 
>> I do appreciate this. But, the issue here is not about the shallow need 
>> of whether one is referenced by another, it is more about respecting a 
>> grass-roots culture and recognizing its 'real' and active hard-worked 
>> contribution, sharing this information with others, contextually. 
>> Grass-roots groups do have the same frameworks and mechanisms in place 
>> to protect their discovered identities, successes and failures. Writing 
>> about all this stuff of course is, much easier than doing it in real 
>> life. If certain academics actually new (in their hearts and souls) how 
>> much of our lives is spent in making these valuable experiences and 
>> shared realizations happen, I think we'd all be in a better place right now.
>>
>>  >should human society operate only on the credit of others credit? Has 
>> human history ever credit correctly?
>>
>> Very good questions. I feel that 'credit' as a word really does not 
>> really get anywhere close in explaining the actual dichotomy and its 
>> relational nuances, of what we are currently engaged with here. I think 
>> that it is much more interesting and also very complex.
>>
>> Unlike, most 'creative industry' orientated endeavors. Instead of 
>> falling into trad-art behaviours and neo-liberal banality, we have 
>> chosen to take risks and spent much of our time in building on our own 
>> shared contexts, bringing about social change, new or alternative 
>> meanings which are not so processed. We have built this, through 
>> constant communication from the bottom up. Spending many years so that 
>> our lives are not shadows of other people's ideas - they are lived out 
>> negotiations reflecting upon each others dialogues and creative spirits, 
>> and not interested in something so vapid or corporate, as social 
>> networking interfaces. But, from a position of engagement with 'real' 
>> people online and off line, in order to re-hack our socially engineered 
>> selves, mutually into something closer to what is worth more personally, 
>> than mere product. This is what makes such a thing as what we are 
>> discussing so important. We are not just discussing 'crediting' someone, 
>> we are discussing part of a group's mutually shared exploration, 
>> relating to actual community values. Yes, its messy, but that also makes 
>> it special, rather than it being mechanistic and efficient.
>>
>> This is also why it is essential for us to share such a dialogue as we 
>> are doing ourselves right now. Because, if I ignore your context and 
>> your community's nuances and reasonings, and just take from you and not 
>> acknowledge your message or imagination, then we as adventurous 
>> explorers in a world dominated by corporations who exploit us as 
>> resources themselves, will find it easier by 'default' to weaken our 
>> resolve, whilst we weaken each other's presence in the world. And when 
>> something is taken without the story of how it came about, we are merely 
>> diluted and more easily packaged and pushed out of the picture. This 
>> happens too much in history, we all know this.
>>
>> So, DIWO is not a product, it is not there for reasons such as 
>> 'accreditation', but about something more authentic in its spirit. It's 
>> a 'story' of how shared, mutual experiences have come about, which will 
>> hopefully inspire others and help in making our engagement with others 
>> more special in some way.
>> Have a great time with your project. I'm on your side - wishing you much 
>> respect.
>>
>> marc
>>
>>
>>
>> Pei wrote:
>>  > Dear Marc Garrett, cc playaround-dev list,
>>  >
>>  > greeting,
>>  >
>>  > I am one of the co-organiser of playaround 2010 Workshop, my name is 
>> Liu, Pei-Wen or simply pei, your post on NetBehaviour mailing list 
>> caught my attention, in which concerning playaround10 used the term DIWO 
>> without contacting furtherfield because your post believed furtherfield 
>> invented this term with a milestone exhibition back to 2007 in UK. 
>> (which i knew about it much much later) and pls allowed me to skip 
>> historical references in this post.
>>  >
>>  > Do not worry, you ain't a pain, but brought up some good points for 
>> positive discussion, about the relationship of an co-operative concept, 
>> or the forming of a collective concept one would say, in a broader 
>> sense, if you agree, a contemporary concept is never a closest packed, 
>> that's why playaround promoted CC shared-alike, DIY, DIWO, and an 
>> approach of FLOSS. When we were in needs of composing the subtitle 
>> earlier this year, the TERM "DIWO" was inspired from Zach Libermann's 
>> preface for Japanese version of the book "Beyond Interaction" that 
>> Escher Tsai (another co-organiser of playaround) translated into 
>> Mandarin, and the following term "Culture" was inspired from another 
>> co-organiser of playaround - Marc Dusseiller's last year workshop - 
>> hackteria.org; DIY microscope taught me that the contents of petri dish 
>> is also called "culture" in english, before and after my prompted idea 
>> announced on playaround-dev list, I never thought of who is the inventor 
>> of this term, i thought it should be a common phrase, just like FYI 
>> ...BTW, even tho furtherfield made a milestone exhibition back in 2007, 
>> i still think DIWO is a common phrase, just like Italo Calvino's great 
>> title "invisible city" ... has already became a common phrase by its 
>> often usages in many albums, art project world wide and transformed into 
>> a sharable concept, some projects did referred to Calvino's book, some 
>> doesn't. why? I do not think it is because of laziness or disregard, 
>> because it is a good title also a state of mind shared commonly !! You 
>> can't authorize a state of mind, that be crazy! should human society 
>> operate only on the credit of others credit? Has human history ever 
>> credit correctly? (those are the questions of confusion in me, certainly 
>> I do not ask for your understanding)
>>  >
>>  > But I certainly agreed with you that playaround said very little 
>> about "DIWO Culture" on our website, DIWO Culture is the English 
>> subtitle, or 文化培養皿 in Mandarin, I did not use the term DIWO in our 
>> mandarin subtitle after discussion with Escher, simply because it 
>> doesn't mean anything in our language to be able to elaborate the 
>> concept we tried to convey, so translating mandarin title back to 
>> english would be " Culture Petri Dish", where an stimulating yet 
>> experimenting environment shared by creatures within, where a culture is 
>> cultivated that corresponding to the believes of DIWO as the method of 
>> workshop.
>>  >
>>  > Here I pasted short paragraph i wrote about DIWO Culture / 文化培養皿 
>> to illustrate the theme of playaround10, which also could be found on 
>> our website ... http://2010.playaround.cc/spirits
>>  >
>>  > 2010 Theme - DIWO culture, each module is a smaller circle of the 
>> bigger circle of playaround workshop, each has it unique culture, 
>> specific motifs and potential of reconnecting to other circle. From 
>> Do-It-Yourself to Do-It-With-Others; digital culture and art offer 
>> countless potentials to connect shared interests among groups, this 
>> possibility has effecting how we deal with daily routing and later, our 
>> needs. On the other hand, it restructures the meaning of needs, and its 
>> by-product, twixt the communication, and reinforce a physical 
>> realisation from an abstract concept. Nevertheless, the most interesting 
>> emphasis of playaround workshop is how to co-operate with others.
>>  >
>>  > In fact, furtherfield's DIWO exhibition was never in my scope, i 
>> enjoy this coincident and happy to cycle it with cc shared-alike, any 
>> comments and suggestions are more than appreciated.
>>  >
>>  > have a brighter summer day, > (ya, cited from Taiwanese film - A 
>> Brighter Summer Day 1991 - by Edwards Yang) >
>>  > pei
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > http://2010.playaround.cc
>>  > www.little-object.com
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > On 5 Jul 2010, at 17:27:000, Chun Lee wrote:
>>  >
>>  >> dear all:
>>  >>
>>  >> i have just read this message from the NetBehaviour list, which 
>> mentioned playaround, but not in a very nice way. i can see their point, and
>>  >> DO think that what ever influences we have drawn upon, they *needs* 
>> to be credited properly.
>>  >>
>>  >> i would advice either pei or escher writing to them as soon as 
>> possible. otherwise playaround would be at risk of been seen as something we
>>  >> had not intend for it to be.
>>  >>
>>  >> cheers
>>  >>
>>  >> chun
>>  >>
>>  >> ----- Forwarded message from marc garrett 
>> <[email protected]> -----
>>  >>
>>  >> From: marc garrett <[email protected]>
>>  >> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity 
>> <[email protected]>
>>  >> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] early
>>  >> Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 15:36:11 +0100
>>  >> User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.24 (X11/20100411)
>>  >>
>>  >> Hi Annie,
>>  >>
>>  >> yes, I will write to them.
>>  >>
>>  >> I do find it surprising that they have not contacted us, especially
>>  >> knowing that they have been influenced in some way, to use DIWO in a
>>  >> similar context.
>>  >>
>>  >> I am wondering if there is anyone on this list who know these people, or
>>  >> are part of the project 'playaround 2010 Electronic Art and Digital
>>  >> Environment Workshop – DIWO Culture (playaround10 – DIWO Culture).'
>>  >> http://tinyurl.com/2ud73v6 ?
>>  >>
>>  >> Just typing diwo & furtherfield, or even 'DIWO' on its own in search
>>  >> engines brings many results of DIWO's origins, their research is much to
>>  >> be desired.
>>  >>
>>  >> marc
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>> Hi Marc
>>  >>>
>>  >>> I agree
>>  >>> it's ok but
>>  >>> you could write them anyway
>>  >>>
>>  >>> kisses
>>  >>> Annie
>>  >>>
>>  >>> On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 1:56 PM, marc garrett
>>  >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>  >>> Another groups using DIWO Term...
>>  >>>
>>  >>> Hi everyone,
>>  >>>
>>  >>> This post will be especially interesting those who have taken part in
>>  >>> our shared 'DIWO' (Do it with others) projects in the past.
>>  >>>
>>  >>> I have been noticing various groups/projects out there, who have been
>>  >>> using 'DIWO', as a contemporary form of sharing, collaborative,
>>  >>> collective practice for a little while now.
>>  >>>
>>  >>> This a recent project I have noticed, but no references to ourselves,
>>  >>> the inventors of the term & practice itself - oh well. I suppose
>>  >> it's ok...
>>  >>> Marc
>>  >>>
>>  >>> wishing all well.
>>  >>>
>>  >>>
>>  >>> playaround 2010 Electronic Art and Digital Environment Workshop –
>>  >> DIWO
>>  >>> Culture (playaround10 – DIWO Culture).
>>  >>>
>>  >>> "playaround 2010 Electronic Art and Digital Environment Workshop
>>  >> – DIWO
>>  >>> Culture;PlayAround10 is the third edition of an intensely
>>  >> parallel and
>>  >>> collaborative workshop of mediating the creative use of FLOSS
>>  >>> (Free/Libre Open Source Software) and DIY practices to an audience of
>>  >>> young students and emerging artists of diverse backgrounds. It
>>  >> combines
>>  >>> the knowledge creation and open distribution of new media
>>  >> technologies
>>  >>> and contemporary art practices in a socially responsible and relevant
>>  >>> context."
>>  >>>
>>  >>> http://tinyurl.com/2ud73v6
>>  >>> _______________________________________________
>>  >>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>>  >>> [email protected]
>>  >>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>  >>>
>>  >>>
>>  >>>
>>  >>>
>>  >>> --
>>  >>>
>>  >>> Documentation of Huis Clos / No Exit - On Translation
>>  >>> Video, reactions of the performers and the public, photos and the
>>  >> performance protocol
>>  >>> http://bram.org/huisclos/ontranslation/indexfr.html
>>  >>>
>>  >>> Article IF NOT YOU NOT ME, ANNIE ABRAHAMS AND LIFE IN NETWORKS,
>>  >>> Maria Chatzichristodoulou in Digimag 54 May 2010
>>  >>> http://www.digicult.it/digimag/article.asp?id=1793
>>  >>>
>>  >>>
>>  >>> _______________________________________________
>>  >>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>>  >>> [email protected]
>>  >>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>  >> _______________________________________________
>>  >> NetBehaviour mailing list
>>  >> [email protected]
>>  >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >> ----- End forwarded message -----
>>  >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour

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