>>>>> "What future artists need to know is that they can make their own contexts beyond the given structures, shoved down their metaphorical gullets ;p-)²
@Marc, true but, if future generations don¹t know the past, then they won¹t know what to reject, they will be acting out of ignorance of what preceded them. Pierre Boulez once said that we need to absorb everything about the history of our discipline, and then, thrown it all away and reinvent it. Hi Helen, That's a very good point... "but i do believe it will matter to those in the future who need to know alternative histories, just as many of us have needed to hunt out our own alternative pasts." What future artists need to know is that they can make their own contexts beyond the given structures, shoved down their metaphorical gullets ;p-) wishing you well. marc On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 3:28 PM, helen varley jamieson <[email protected]> wrote: > > the future will indeed choose what is important to preserve, & i prefer to > put my energies into making work rather than trying to anticipate what might > happen in the future. but that of course means that it's up to those who have > the power in the future to make decisions about what's worth preserving, & we > know that this will probably exclude many marginalised groups. as most of us > on this list are operating outside of mainstream arts structures & academies, > it's likely that most of us will be quietly forgotten. that doesn't matter to > me personally, but i do believe it will matter to those in the future who need > to know alternative histories, just as many of us have needed to hunt out our > own alternative pasts. > > > On 4/03/15 5:42 10AM, Pall Thayer wrote: > > >> >> I agree with Randall (agreeing with Rushkoff) that we live in an >> ever-ever-present tense and this also ties into Paul Virilio's perspective of >> real-time. But both of these phenomena are exactly what they describe, they >> are the now and cannot be projected onto the past nor the future in any >> meaningful way. The future will choose what it deems important. It doesn't >> really make any sense for us to be concerned with that at this point. If we >> decide to create our work in ways that will make it more accessible and/or >> easier to preserve for future generations, then we're limiting ourselves. If >> someone does choose that direction for those reasons, I would wager that >> they're going to be the ones that become as irrelevant as Bouguereau, etc. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 11:22 PM, Pall Thayer <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> The notion that we might be "erasing our historical past as we create it for >>> the digital future" sounds somewhat absurd and escapist to me. If we are not >>> recognized for our efforts in the future, we should chalk it up to a failure >>> of our present to find a means to preserve our work? We all think we're >>> creating important and relevant work but if the future doesn't come up with >>> a way to extract and preserve it, then it probably didn't mean that much to >>> them. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:50 PM, Kath O'Donnell <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> yes, that's likely true. we hope the future might be interested but who >>>> knows what they'll be thinking of by then. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 4 March 2015 at 13:29, Pall Thayer <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> It's interesting to consider what we, in our current ever-present-present, >>>>> might think future generations will be interested in. We're probably >>>>> wrong. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 12:26 PM, Randall Packer <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Kath, you¹re last remarks are particularly relevant in regards to the >>>>>> emerging digital natives and millennials. My teaching is centered around >>>>>> the study of the digital native as a kind of anthropological research. It >>>>>> seems there is a clear trend towards giving up on privacy, and a growing >>>>>> lack of concern for preservation, as you suggest. Of course when you are >>>>>> 20 you might not think it is important to save anything, but in fact, we >>>>>> have a social media industry focused on information as more and more >>>>>> transient. The social media of today is about the NOW, what is at the top >>>>>> of our feed, which comes to our screen in the Moment, and then fades in >>>>>> descending chronological order into a past we are no longer interested >>>>>> in. As Douglas Rushkoff has written in Present Shock, we live in an >>>>>> ever-present-present tense, our abbreviated attention span revolving >>>>>> around the here and now. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> I suppose it's really up to how much people care about these >>>>>>>>> things, and whether they work towards saving some of it or preparing >>>>>>>>> for the future. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> What in fact are we leaving behind for future generations on our >>>>>>>> hard drives and cloud >>>>>> repositories? And how will the technological culture of today be viewed >>>>>> when these values are no longer decipherable. Are we in fact erasing our >>>>>> historical past as we create it for the digital future? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I think this is a real issue. though we try to save some things using >>>>>> archives, the changing formats and technology (and speed of change) is >>>>>> causing data to be lost or at the very least, harder/longer to >>>>>> recover/republish (especially if they need converting later on). it's >>>>>> covering both net art and personal items such as home photos which are >>>>>> generally no longer printed, and home videos. I also wonder what future >>>>>> archeologists will think of our surviving buried rubbish. so whilst I >>>>>> love the net, I think it's important to go back to hand made physical art >>>>>> and craft too. if there is some pulse in the future which wipes all the >>>>>> technology we'll be left with a gap from our digital/online years. let's >>>>>> hope the libraries survive. I've heard of projects such as printed copies >>>>>> of Wikipedia, but I wonder how many they print and how distributed these >>>>>> are. (plus how often as WP changes so quickly). in smaller communities >>>>>> such as music communities (for one example), there's less event flyers >>>>>> printed out - they are all online or (worse) only on Facebook as event >>>>>> listings, which means they are lost over very short times. I suppose it's >>>>>> really up to how much people care about these things, and whether they >>>>>> work towards saving some of it or preparing for the future. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> looking forward to this month. checking out the artworks now - they're >>>>>> looking great >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3 March 2015 at 06:17, Randall Packer <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> [snip] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here are some questions to consider: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are we in fact producing a cultural history that emanates from the >>>>>>> language of computers? Are the cultural references of today >>>>>>> increasingly >>>>>>> coded in numerical values that will need to be compiled and encoded in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> far future by curious historians of the 21st century? What in fact are >>>>>>> we >>>>>>> leaving behind for future generations on our hard drives and cloud >>>>>>> repositories? And how will the technological culture of today be viewed >>>>>>> when these values are no longer decipherable. Are we in fact erasing >>>>>>> our >>>>>>> historical past as we create it for the digital future? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Randall >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [snip] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing >>>>>> list [email protected] >>>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> ***************************** >>>>> Pall Thayer >>>>> artist >>>>> http://pallthayer.dyndns.org >>>>> ***************************** >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> ***************************** >>> Pall Thayer >>> artist >>> http://pallthayer.dyndns.org >>> ***************************** >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> ***************************** >> Pall Thayer >> artist >> http://pallthayer.dyndns.org >> ***************************** >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> [email protected]http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/net >> behaviour >> > > > -- > helen varley jamieson > [email protected] > http://www.creative-catalyst.com > http://www.talesfromthetowpath.net > http://www.upstage.org.nz > > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list [email protected] http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
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