"if future generations don’t know the past, then they won’t know what to reject, they will be acting out of ignorance of what preceded them."
Is that a bad thing? In the act of looking back and rejecting everything which has preceded us in the history of our discipline, Derrida would suggest a trace to that past would remain; the future artist would still be practicing within established structures and context. Perhaps acting out of ignorance risks not only re-inventing the wheel, but an opportunity to create something that is truly new. David Sent from my iPhone > On 5 Mar 2015, at 12:07, Randall Packer <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>>>> "What future artists need to know is that they can make their own > >>>>> contexts beyond the given structures, shoved down their metaphorical > >>>>> gullets ;p-)” > > @Marc, true but, if future generations don’t know the past, then they won’t > know what to reject, they will be acting out of ignorance of what preceded > them. Pierre Boulez once said that we need to absorb everything about the > history of our discipline, and then, thrown it all away and reinvent it. > > Hi Helen, > > That's a very good point... "but i do believe it will matter to those in the > future who need to know alternative histories, just as many of us have > needed to hunt out our own alternative pasts." > > What future artists need to know is that they can make their own contexts > beyond the given structures, shoved down their metaphorical gullets ;p-) > > wishing you well. > > marc > > >> On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 3:28 PM, helen varley jamieson >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> the future will indeed choose what is important to preserve, & i prefer to >> put my energies into making work rather than trying to anticipate what might >> happen in the future. but that of course means that it's up to those who >> have the power in the future to make decisions about what's worth >> preserving, & we know that this will probably exclude many marginalised >> groups. as most of us on this list are operating outside of mainstream arts >> structures & academies, it's likely that most of us will be quietly >> forgotten. that doesn't matter to me personally, but i do believe it will >> matter to those in the future who need to know alternative histories, just >> as many of us have needed to hunt out our own alternative pasts. >> >>> On 4/03/15 5:42 10AM, Pall Thayer wrote: >>> I agree with Randall (agreeing with Rushkoff) that we live in an >>> ever-ever-present tense and this also ties into Paul Virilio's perspective >>> of real-time. But both of these phenomena are exactly what they describe, >>> they are the now and cannot be projected onto the past nor the future in >>> any meaningful way. The future will choose what it deems important. It >>> doesn't really make any sense for us to be concerned with that at this >>> point. If we decide to create our work in ways that will make it more >>> accessible and/or easier to preserve for future generations, then we're >>> limiting ourselves. If someone does choose that direction for those >>> reasons, I would wager that they're going to be the ones that become as >>> irrelevant as Bouguereau, etc. >>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 11:22 PM, Pall Thayer <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> The notion that we might be "erasing our historical past as we create it >>>> for the digital future" sounds somewhat absurd and escapist to me. If we >>>> are not recognized for our efforts in the future, we should chalk it up to >>>> a failure of our present to find a means to preserve our work? We all >>>> think we're creating important and relevant work but if the future doesn't >>>> come up with a way to extract and preserve it, then it probably didn't >>>> mean that much to them. >>>> >>>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 9:50 PM, Kath O'Donnell <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> yes, that's likely true. we hope the future might be interested but who >>>>> knows what they'll be thinking of by then. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 4 March 2015 at 13:29, Pall Thayer <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> It's interesting to consider what we, in our current >>>>>> ever-present-present, might think future generations will be interested >>>>>> in. We're probably wrong. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 12:26 PM, Randall Packer <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Kath, you’re last remarks are particularly relevant in regards to the >>>>>>> emerging digital natives and millennials. My teaching is centered >>>>>>> around the study of the digital native as a kind of anthropological >>>>>>> research. It seems there is a clear trend towards giving up on privacy, >>>>>>> and a growing lack of concern for preservation, as you suggest. Of >>>>>>> course when you are 20 you might not think it is important to save >>>>>>> anything, but in fact, we have a social media industry focused on >>>>>>> information as more and more transient. The social media of today is >>>>>>> about the NOW, what is at the top of our feed, which comes to our >>>>>>> screen in the Moment, and then fades in descending chronological order >>>>>>> into a past we are no longer interested in. As Douglas Rushkoff has >>>>>>> written in Present Shock, we live in an ever-present-present tense, our >>>>>>> abbreviated attention span revolving around the here and now. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> I suppose it's really up to how much people care about these >>>>>>> >>> things, and whether they work towards saving some of it or >>>>>>> >>> preparing for the future. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >> What in fact are we leaving behind for future generations on our >>>>>>> >> hard drives and cloud >>>>>>> repositories? And how will the technological culture of today be >>>>>>> viewed >>>>>>> when these values are no longer >>>>>>> decipherable. Are we in fact erasing our >>>>>>> historical past as we create it for the digital future? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think this is a real issue. though we try to save some things using >>>>>>> archives, the changing formats and technology (and speed of change) is >>>>>>> causing data to be lost or at the very least, harder/longer to >>>>>>> recover/republish (especially if they need converting later on). it's >>>>>>> covering both net art and personal items such as home photos which are >>>>>>> generally no longer printed, and home videos. >>>>>>> I also wonder what future archeologists >>>>>>> will think of our surviving buried rubbish. so whilst I love the net, I >>>>>>> think it's important to go back to hand made physical art and craft >>>>>>> too. if there is some pulse in the future which wipes all the >>>>>>> technology we'll be left with a gap from our digital/online years. >>>>>>> let's hope the libraries survive. I've heard of projects such as >>>>>>> printed copies of Wikipedia, but I wonder how many they print and how >>>>>>> distributed these are. (plus how often as WP changes so quickly). in >>>>>>> smaller communities such as music communities (for one example), >>>>>>> there's less event flyers printed out - they are all online or (worse) >>>>>>> only on Facebook as event listings, which means they are lost over very >>>>>>> short times. I suppose it's really up to how much people care about >>>>>>> these things, and whether they work towards saving some of it or >>>>>>> preparing for the future. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> looking forward to this month. checking out the artworks now - they're >>>>>>> looking great >>>>>>> thanks >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 3 March 2015 at 06:17, Randall Packer <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> [snip] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Here are some questions to consider: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are we in fact producing a cultural history that emanates from the >>>>>>>> language of computers? Are the cultural references of today >>>>>>>> increasingly >>>>>>>> coded in numerical values that >>>>>>>> will need to be compiled and encoded in the >>>>>>>> far future by curious historians of the 21st century? What in fact are >>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>> leaving behind for future generations on our hard drives and cloud >>>>>>>> repositories? And how will the technological culture of today be viewed >>>>>>>> when these values are no longer decipherable. Are we in fact erasing >>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>> historical past as we create it for the digital future? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Randall >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [snip] >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing >>>>>>> list [email protected] >>>>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> ***************************** >>>>>> Pall Thayer >>>>>> artist >>>>>> http://pallthayer.dyndns.org >>>>>> ***************************** >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ***************************** >>>> Pall Thayer >>>> artist >>>> http://pallthayer.dyndns.org >>>> ***************************** >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ***************************** >>> Pall Thayer >>> artist >>> http://pallthayer.dyndns.org >>> ***************************** >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>> [email protected]http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> >> -- >> helen varley jamieson >> [email protected] >> http://www.creative-catalyst.com >> http://www.talesfromthetowpath.net >> http://www.upstage.org.nz >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
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