Cheers Alana, Thanks for the insights! In reference to the innumerable in visually impressive environments.. I think its very interesting perhaps in context of edges and totalities, the attempt to focus on the refusal to be described numeriacally right within a most visually numerial of environments.
In mu mind there is a link there with the religiously oriented violence. Perhaps other violence, however, in terms of religion, there is a possible social association between an attempt to build a "logical", a Numerable social environment - that is unable to sustain, or even live with, the illogical and innumerable within people. Hence, perhaps there can be an attraction to the readymade false-logic systems that stuff like religions can offer.. Am mentioning as it might link with the Isis notion.. Though perhaps am placing my own personal interest in share-=able, exchange-able, arguable sensations.. Mind - To compute - hence count - is etymologically linked with paving. With levelling, to prune. In that sense, like when one cuts grass, paving a way, pruning an idea, or perhaps ironing clothes even ;) - it can be argued they do some un-accounted and unaccountable - computing..(??) BTW re latour. there are a few videos where he talks about composionalism. eg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-02aCvQ-HFs Hey - have a lovely day! :) aharonone xx On Wed, August 26, 2015 2:35 am, Alan Sondheim wrote: > > Thank you again, and replies inserted below, some editing - > > > On Tue, 25 Aug 2015, none wrote: > > >> Clutters. >> Etymologically, there is a link to heaps. By dictionary meanings, there >> is a collection link. Agree it can be taken as an archive/data-base >> where it is not. However, staying with heaps, and heap making - eg throw >> a bunch of stuff to form a heap - might point towards a question of How >> clutters, or a given clutter might operate? > > What's interesting about heaps to me, is that they're actually fairly > structured, top-down, by gravity; there have been numerous studies for > example of sandpiles, what causes slides on the slopes, the maximum > permissible slopes, and so forth; this comes up also in the recent comet > landing and geography. > > Clutter isn't top-down, hierarchical; it's everywhere, and often > references data-basing, that the elements have histories, even names, and > other tags - think of a room with a lot of clutter. On the other hand, > the cluttered environments I create in second life or other virtual > worlds, _have no resolutions,_ they're alien, alienware, alienworn - and > for me this relates, say, to the cosmos, to the innumerable, to the > uncounted, unaccountable, unaccounted-for. > >> From digital environments perspective, a clutter can be said to be >> "spaghetti code", no? Or perhaps something that might seem like clutter, >> like when one goes into a jungle for the 1st time, or hears an utterly >> unknown language - everything seems to jumble, to be a clutter - yet >> for a trained eye or mind, there are clear and uncluttered patterns.. In >> terms of online life, with clusters and networks, do we have online >> Heaps/Clutters? >> > > I think we sense cluttering, for example, Facebook seems "increasingly > cluttered," which means, I think, obstructed, as if _obstructed from > without_ - for one's own clutter is often decipherable by the self, but Fb > is clearly corporate, with menus within menus, etc. The trails - trials - > are there, but at first glance unfathomable, and one's always uneasy that > one is missing something, that the 'usual path' will lead elsewhere now, > or come to a blank end... > >> B Latour talks about Compositionism, as a sort of network actors' >> arrangement and rearrangements. I wonder whether in fact these >> compositions - and indeed being oriented around them - is not actually >> resting upon time based clutters that came together sequentially rather >> than causally, and are then being subjected to a process of entraining >> by a pattern seeking/making human mind? (a mind that can make patterns >> in a jungle..?) > > They came together like gravitational pull on rubble in space :-) > - in other words, striations, compositions, nothing time-based except > coagulations, certainly not sequentially or causally. I think of those 26 > independent fundamental constants, something like that... > >> A recent(ish) review of a Wendy Chun text to do with code, language and >> physicality - e.g. that of machines. >> http://www.publicseminar.org/2015/07/wendy-chun-on-software-and-the-mac >> hine/ > > I'll look at this and thanks; I know her and have always admired her > thinking - > >> However there are also links there to the machinery of capitalism, >> which might sort of be connected with the questions to do with socio >> economic and environmental questions? > > I think for me the world's driven more, at this point, by climate change, > weaponry, and overpopulation, no matter what the ideology. We behave > like the species we are, every so often a glimmer of something else, like > the current agreement of N and S Korea to actually step down from whatever > brinks there are... > > Thank so much; I haven't read the Latour or the Chun yet! > > > - Alan, best and cheers! > > >> >> Cheers and all the bests! >> >> >> aharone xx >> >> >> >> Perhaps interesting in terms of offering a >> On Tue, August 25, 2015 1:34 am, Alan Sondheim wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Thanks!, Comments below - >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2015, none wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> A few pre noting notes: >>>> Hopefully something might be relevant here. Not entirely >>>> comprehending the context apart from - giving a talk.(??) >>> >>> Giving a talk, which will skitter across the notes; I've never been >>> able to "read" a talk, or even write one. >>> >>>> However, I did do that silly human thing of checking for a pattern, >>>> and staying with it. Perhaps it could be more riveting to read from >>>> and out such patterns..? I'd do in a personal text, not someone >>>> else's.. Which >>>> kind of takes us right into the pattern/thread that seems to Be..(?) >>>> >>> >>> There are patterns, cross references; I think a major trope for me is >>> entanglement, maybe Buddhist depending-arising. >>> >>>> The focus seems to be of examples to do with mashing edges and >>>> totalities of stuff. >>> >>> And problematizing edges and totalities, as well as structures within >>> and without boundaries and totalities. >>> >>>> In a sense, without having the totality, the edges might be well >>>> hidden, and by focusing on such endings of things - they seem to >>>> require a perception oriented in absolutes. >>> >>> Which is where the idea of blankness comes in, endings are always >>> problematized, at this point even in cosmology. >>> >>>> (An absolutive oriented programming..? ;) ) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It seems to have a territorial oriented perception - of spaces, >>>> endings, and edges. These corners are being put together, brought >>>> together as a sort of collage(??). I think am trying to say that >>>> each action of bringing these edges together - perhaps a Surge in >>>> the Notes' own vocabulary - has a unique collection of these ends. >>> >>> The Surge references the overcoming of all (scientific, biological, >>> etc.) knowledge, as such grows exponentially. The corners are always a >>> melange, abject, as far as culture's concerned. I wouldn't think of >>> collection (which implies data-bases, etc., and some degree of >>> exactitude), so much as collectivities. >>>> >>>> Hence, it seems that each note can be an example - or Is an >>>> example(??) - >>>> of an edges surge. Here are a few examples: When speaking of life and >>>> death (in virtual worlds), it seems to take these as binary objects, >>>> oppose to one another - hence by putting them together, the edges >>>> become apparent. (this perception is based on language of "death and >>>> "life", rather than a softer focus such as a >>>> process of living, etc..) >>> >>> Life and death in vr is always a question of representation, as well >>> as the death of software (or users) itself - for example, the 'body >>> bags' in many of the MOOs which were abandoned as their subcribers >>> went elsewhere. >>> >>> >>> It _is_ always a question of process, but in the real world, death is >>> a finality, and how does one represent this? Think about it? How can >>> death and pain, in this regard, be represented, without turning to >>> cartoon images, etc.? >>> >>>> Dance/movement as a practice that brings together the virtual and >>>> the physical realities. Or the sense of them. Again there is a sense >>>> of edges coming together to form a new element/thing. >>> >>> When one of my avatars moves in, say, Second Life, it's movement is >>> almost always a movement translated from physical dance, physical >>> dancers, using software and topological remappings in mocap. But I'm >>> always aware of the physicality involved, even in virtual worlds - >>> there's a kind of trail of flesh... >>> >>>> Glitches - visuals(?? I assume here that we talk of visual ones, >>>> could be all sorts though..) that are made when an edge of code >>>> meets an edge of electronic/electric element/s. >>> >>> Visual, but also crashes, logging-out of users, etc. >>> >>> >>> >>>> Language and its entangled limits. (i am not sure how this >>>> terminology operates. however, in my mind, this seems to be of a >>>> linked nature with the sense of digital/virtual - often used with a >>>> language for its program - and its intrinsically linked edge - ie. >>>> the materiality of a device/network line, body, etc..) >>> >>> Yes, here - >>> >>> >>> >>>> The surge ofcourse is an absolute, and ISIS offers a new >>>> absolutativeness. In a sense, ISIS is a sort of an embodied surge, >>>> bringing together the ends of terroristic perception meshed with an >>>> abosolutist historical perception, and statist/nationalistic >>>> edges, coming from breaks and breaking the Sykes/Picot borders and >>>> colonial assumptions - all occurring at the edges of deserts which >>>> meet fertile lands. >>> >>> The surge is two-fold, the absolute, but also the growth of knowledge >>> - >>> and the tension or torsion between the two regions - >>> >>>> (Perhaps ISIS should be declared a Sondheim performance gone a bit >>>> glitchy..?) >>> >>> Would NEVER want to be associated that way! :-) >>> >>> >>> >>>> I could go on with examples, including the sense of elements going >>>> Wrong - >>>> ie breaking and by default new corners come together to form a >>>> malfunction sense? (again, wrongness might require a sense of >>>> totality..) Clutter as sense of things coming together, focusing on >>>> the perceptions that rise via the sort of new body that comes out..? >>>> >>> >>> Clutter also as something which can't be mapped, which escapes >>> mapping... >>> >>> >>>> In that sense, - new body that comes out - I thought that perhaps >>>> the terror algorithm was/is a bit illustrative..? Almost decorative >>>> as such? Just wonder how it might be if it was a terror oriented >>>> programming language.. Or even much more interesting, I think, a >>>> terror calculus - hence allowing new terror formations to be..? >>> >>> There is a terror calculus, I think, which is the 0/1 section of the >>> text - it leads nowhere, only to collapse and absolutist division. >>> >>> >>> >>>> Also, talk of computer kind of languages.. Perl and language, and >>>> human language.. Perhaps there could be a perl for camels? A perl >>>> that perhaps is a camel? Or camel oriented? Might be a perl that's >>>> hardly thirsty? Or a perl that is for deserts? >>> >>>> Hey.. Hope this somehow assists in something - or some process - >>>> been a pleasure to delve into! :) Many THANKS for sharing, Alan! >>>> >>> Thank you so much for the close reading; as i said it's really >>> useful, it's rare to have such feedback, and I'll use it at the talk. >>> >>> Cheers, and best! >>> Alan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Cheers and ciaos! >>>> ahanonexx(??) >>> >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> >> >> > > == > email archive http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ web > http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 718-813-3285 > music: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ > current text http://www.alansondheim.org/ti.txt == > > _______________________________________________ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
