I'm new to this IETF thing, but from my other experiences - silence means "I 
don't care". "Yes" means "yes".   

"Do nothing ... for now" is a perfectly good response to a proposal that isn't 
generating the expected interest. 

--
Ashesh

> On Aug 13, 2015, at 1:44 PM, Nadeau Thomas <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Aug 13, 2015:4:32 PM, at 4:32 PM, Andy Bierman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 1:14 PM, Nadeau Thomas <[email protected]> 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 13, 2015:4:03 PM, at 4:03 PM, Andy Bierman <[email protected]> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 12:41 PM, Nadeau Thomas <[email protected]> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2015:12:09 PM, at 12:09 PM, Benoit Claise <[email protected]> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> During the YANG Model Coordination Group webex call today, we discussed 
>>>>>> this oper status and structure open issues. We're ready to help 
>>>>>> facilitate the discussion between the different proposals
>>>>>> We could compare the pros/cons of the different solutions from our point 
>>>>>> of view.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> To allow us some preparation time, alternate proposals should be posted 
>>>>>> a week before the NETMOD interim meeting, i.e. Sept 3rd.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The YANG Model Coordination Group 
>>>>>   Speaking as Co-chair:
>>>>> 
>>>>>   Just to clarify a bit on this. The purpose of the next Interim meeting 
>>>>> is to close on the issues around the Open Config proposal. We meant to do 
>>>>> this in Praha, but we could not get the right people to attend the 
>>>>> meeting to have the right discussion. We need to close on this issue as 
>>>>> soon as possible, as this is possibly blocking a lot of other WG-related 
>>>>> work; therefore, if no alternative proposals are posted to discuss ahead 
>>>>> of the interim meeting, then the original proposal will become the 
>>>>> solution to move forward with in the WG. Alternatives must be complete 
>>>>> proposals, not bullet points of complaints or such things - they must be 
>>>>> a solution or they will not be allowed onto the agenda.  As Benoit 
>>>>> declared above, these must be posted ahead of the meeting and will be put 
>>>>> on the agenda for the meeting to present/discuss/debate as well as to 
>>>>> give everyone ample time to read and understand the document/s.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Are you proposing that all existing RFCs with YANG modules in them be
>>>> changed to "obsolete", and new modules published that move the data
>>>> under a container named "device" (from some TBD module)?  If not, then
>>>> what is the proposal for data root placement for existing RFC modules?
>>>> 
>>>> Are you also proposing that all YANG modules with config in them must
>>>> define that config in a grouping, and all config must appear in a
>>>> container named "config"? Also, that all config data must be replicated
>>>> (i.e., use that grouping) under a config false container named <state>?
>>>> This will be done even though in 90% of all servers, it doesn't take very
>>>> long for intended config to become the active config?  If not, then what
>>>> is the exact proposal for usage within IETF modules?
>>>> 
>>>> Everyone should understand the impact of these changes.
>>>> Silence should not mean "I read the openconfig proposals and
>>>> approve of these changes".  Only emails to this list that state as much
>>>> should mean that.
>>> 
>>>     Andy,
>>> 
>>>     Yes, people should read and understand the proposal. If they don’t like 
>>> it please come up with a 
>>> viable alternative. If the alternative is to do nothing, then propose that 
>>> and we will see what the consensus 
>>> is.  If the proposal is to constructively alter parts of their proposal, 
>>> thats great too.  After we get consensus on 
>>> the general approach, I will manage things issue-by-issue as we are doing 
>>> with other major initiatives in 
>>> NETMOD.  What we will not do is continue to go round and round about points 
>>> of their proposal without
>>> coming to any conclusions. We’ve had several interim meetings where they 
>>> have taken the time to 
>>> discuss and educate everyone that is interested in how their approach works 
>>> and why.  To-date, there 
>>> are no alternatives being proposed resulting from those discussions - just 
>>> more debate/discussion.  
>>> What the management is declaring is that the time has come to move forward 
>>> on this, one way or 
>>> another.
>> 
>> 
>> It seems somewhat irregular to declare that silence means agreement to
>> an individual submission (no WG charter, no WG draft). 
> 
>       That is how we do the Yang 1.1 design team work right?  The mini-team
> makes a recommendation and if no one objects, it goes forward.  Seems
> like the same thing to me.  The point is that ample time has been given
> for anyone to object.  There is still time now too - but we are limiting that
> time so that the WG can move forward with or without this proposal.
> 
>> There has not been a debate.
> 
>       There have been several interim meetings and this was discussed
> at now two full meetings. There have been ample opportunities for debate.
> 
>> There have been proposals,
>> and some people not even agreeing with the the problems.
> 
>       That was not the outcome of the last interim meeting. If others 
> do not agree, then they need to speak up.
> 
>       —Tom
> 
> 
>> There has been no response why:
>> 
>>   (1) YANG config=true|false is not good enough to filter, and why
>>         extra NP containers called <config> and <state> are even needed
>> 
>>   (2) YANG constraints written for config=true are not intended to
>>         be applied to config=false, yet that is exactly what is proposed
>>          with the replicated config under a <state> container
>> 
>>  (3)  Why a new operation called <get-operational> cannot be used to
>>        retrieve the actual value in use for /foo
>>        There is no guessing required to map 1 path to another.
>>        There is no additional cost for the 90% of devices that
>>        do not take a long time to apply intended config
>>  
>> I agree with Lada that consensus should be gauged by mailing list
>> statements (count the number of non-authors that approve or oppose).
>> This discussion should take place on the mailing list, not another virtual
>> interim that is outside normal business hours for most of us.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>>     —Tom
>> 
>> 
>> Andy
>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>   Thanks,
>>>>> 
>>>>>   —Tom 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Andy
>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>> NETMOD Working Group invites you to join this WebEx meeting.
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> NETMOD Interm meeting on OpenConfig
>>>>>>> Thursday, September 10, 2015 
>>>>>>> 11:00 am  |  Eastern Daylight Time (New York, GMT-04:00)  |  1 hr 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> Join WebEx meeting
>>>>>>> Meeting number: 645 732 277 
>>>>>>> Meeting password:       1234
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> Join by phone
>>>>>>> 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)
>>>>>>> 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)
>>>>>>> Access code: 645 732 277
>>>>>>> Toll-free calling restrictions
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> Add this meeting to your calendar.
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> Can't join the meeting? Contact support.
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this WebEx service allows audio and 
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> netmod mailing list
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>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
> 
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