Randy Presuhn <[email protected]> writes:

> Hi -
>
>>From: Ladislav Lhotka <[email protected]>
>>Sent: Dec 19, 2015 12:07 AM
>>To: Andy Bierman <[email protected]>
>>Cc: NETMOD WG <[email protected]>
>>Subject: Re: [netmod] module update rules
> ...
>>IMO, 6020(bis) is not a good place for such rules because
>> their applicability depends on the context. Backward
>> compatibility is a matter of policies and, above all,
>> sound judgement of module authors/publishers/vendors.
>
> C'mon.  Can't we at least *pretend* to be doing configuration
> management?  Being able to decide whether two things (schemata

Actually, we are not doing only configuration management: for
state data the rules of sec. 10 are arguably useless.

> or actual instances of configuration) are in some sense
> the same, "compatible", or different is much too fundamental
> to the problem space to be left to whim.
>

Deciding whether a revision is compatible with a previous one is
possible – at least if compatibility means sec. 10 rules. However,
sec. 10 states that a new revision MUST NOT introduce incompatible
changes, ever. Such an absolute statement IMO doesn't make sense - we
have been violating it for most NETMOD modules, and it is probably no
different in other WGs. And if the rules are meant as a whip on rogue
vendors and their proprietary modules, then it certainly won't help
either.

> ...
>>> Vendors implement work-in-progress at their own risk.
>>
>>Yes, and that's why no vendor is very eager to do that.
>> I actually think we should try harder to reduce the module
>> churn already in the I-D phase, if possible.
>
> SNMP dealt with this by not issuing the authoritative identifier
> (the OID) until RFC publication, so anyone implementing the
> work-in-progress did so in their own OID space.  Perhaps it
> would be worthwhile to initiate a similar practice here.

It might be helpful to be able explicitly indicate the status of each
module, e.g. pre-alpha, alpha, beta, release-candidate, stable.

Some modules spend a long time in the I-D stage (ietf-routing was
started 57 months ago), so it doesn't tell much by itself.

>
>>> IMO we should do a better job publishing RFCs on time,
>>> and implement RFCs.
>>
>>But doing that means there is no way back - because of
>> the update rules. We have to accept that even modules
>>published in RFCs may need to be changed in ways that
>> aren't permitted by sec. 10, based on feedback from
>> implementations.
>
> Why is that a problem?  If it turns out that the published
> model is substantially flawed, then it seems that treating
> the fixed module as a distinct entity is the right thing to
> do.  Keeping the same name might help someone save face, but
> it would in no way aid interoperability.  The basic idea is
> that if one changes something too much, it becomes something
> else.  This holds so often true in life that I'm surprised
> that anyone would be surprised by this.

Yes, if something changes too much. I don't think though that elementary
changes such as adding a single new mandatory leaf fall into this
category, yet they are not allowed per sec. 10 rules. It is not
reasonable to start a new module in such cases because the revision
history still provides valuable information, a new name and namespace
URI is needed etc. Such an abrupt change help neither old clients nor
anybody else.

Lada

>
> Randy
>
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-- 
Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C

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