发件人: Netconf [mailto:[email protected]] 代表 Andy Bierman
发送时间: 2018年12月20日 2:46
收件人: Jan Lindblad; Andy Bierman; [email protected]; [email protected]
主题: Re: [Netconf] [netmod] magic leaf 'type' in IETF interfaces



On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 6:16 AM Ladislav Lhotka 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Jan Lindblad <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> writes:

> Hi,
>>> While I agree with Martin, in our systems we have a number of places, where 
>>> the system does create configuration in running, due to
>>>
>>> different levels of automation and autonomous algorithms kick-in
>>> the created config needs to be possible to be further modified by the 
>>> operator
>>> the created config needs to be referenced from operator created config
>>> the created config is not always ephemeral, it might need to be part of 
>>> backup/restore
>> This is only a sampling from "the list of excuses". I have heard many more. 
>> The road to hell is paved with good intentions, however.. If we want to 
>> build automation based on sound theory, clearly separating the orders from 
>> managers from a system's own operational view is key, IMO. Reliability, 
>> security, accountability are growing in importance, and they all play in 
>> this direction.
>>
>> We may not need to standardize rules to outlaw the above; the market will 
>> take care of that. What we need to ensure is that it is possible to be 
>> standards compliant without having to implement design excuses like these.
>>
>>
>> NMDA has a lot of room for proprietary mechanisms for converting <running> 
>> to <intended>.
>> Many times the features desired by engineers exceed the capabilities of 
>> YANG, such as
>> a dynamic default leaf.  YANG allows a simple constant, and no business 
>> logic to pick the default.
>> This is a very valid use of "server auto-magic".
>>
>> Maybe a future version of YANG can improve the client visibility into this 
>> "auto-magic"
>
> As you say, this is not uncommon. I usually recommend to leave out any
> default statement, and write in the description what happens if this
> leaf isn't set. The operator can then override the default by giving a
> value.

Anyway, this is not a case where the server writes something on its own
to a configuration datastore.


I don't think it is a problem if NMDA or non-NMDA servers write to <running>.
Just part of the complexity that is baked in -- NMDA does nothing to help the 
client know
why <running> is different than <intended> anyway.





[Qin]: I think it is important to make NMDA server can use existing operation to

   return the same results to Non-NMDA client with <rpc-reply> as non-NMDA 
server

   does. We call this Server Backwards-Compatibility in

   
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wu-netconf-nmda-compatibility-00#section-2.3



>
> While some more advanced features for default values may be of some
> utility, the simplicity of YANG is also important. We don't want to
> make the YANG models -- the interface contracts -- the new place for
> all business logic.

Absolutely.

I am not proposing YANG needs a new default-stmt. There is a description-stmt
and vendors can add their own extensions to flag auto-magic data nodes.

Lada

>
> /jan


Andy

>
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--
Ladislav Lhotka
Head, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67
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