Robert Wilton <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 04/03/2019 11:49, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> But this behaviour is still different from the frequently used meaning > >> of ‘\’ today in programming languages, which as I know it just splits > >> lines and preserves whitespace. > > Right, but we're not doing a programming language, we try to fit long > > lines in examples into the format required by RFCs, including > > indentation. > > But this does give a different meaning to a well used notation, that > may well cause surprise and confusion. > > > > For example, suppose you have: > > > > Here's an example: > > > > foo bar baz \ > > buzz > > > > Unfolded, do you think this is: > > > > foo bar baz buzz > > > > or > > > > foo bar baz buzz > > This one. The counter example:
But note that figures in RFCs are normally indented with 3 spaces (they _can_ be outdented, if the lines are long enough). > > foo bar baz\ > buzz > > Do you think that this is: > > foo bar bazbuzz This one. > Or > > foo bar baz buzz > > > > > > > >> YANG requires a separator character between a keyword and its > >> argument. What happens if the tool happens to split the line between > >> the two of them. > >> > >> > >> > >> E.g > >> > >> container\ > >> > >> test > >> > >> > >> > >> After the artwork folding, this would become > >> > >> containertest > >> > >> > >> > >> This could be mitigated by a smarter folding tool (e.g. split before > >> the ‘r’ or after the first space). > > > > 1. Don't use a tool to add line breaks - remember the goal was to > > have a readable example. > > No line break is added. It was performing a line split on "container > test". I meant, don't use tools to do folding (or use a smart tool). > > 2. Don't use this alg. for YANG modules, since YANG has builtin / > > native support for splitting long lines. > > > > > >> Or, what if the tool was being used to fold a table that was using > >> whitespace to align the columns. This could easily break if > >> whitespace is stripped. > > Don't use this alg for tables (or ascii art in general) -- it won't > > help readers. > > The choice of solution seems to make it quite restricted where it can > be validly used. I.e. it is only safe to use to fold documents where > whitespace has no significance, and can be arbitrarily removed from > the folded object without changing the document's meaning. > > I think that this would mean that the folding mechanism isn't safe on > either XML or JSON documents (since whitespace is significant, > e.g. within a string). For the use case that I envision, i.e., manually added \'s, I don't think this is an issue. It might be that we're trying to solve different problems - I would like a solution that is intuitive for the reader and has a minimal amount of noise, but I think that some others think it is more important that tools can be used to automate the folding process. > There seems to be a ever growing list of things that we can't safely > use this form of artwork folding on. Are there are any examples of > stuff that we can safely use it on? ;-) Just to be clear: my preference is for a single \ as described above, but I am ok with the solution in the current draft (an additional \ on the next line). /martin > > Thanks, > Rob > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Rob > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Martin Bjorklund <[email protected]> > >> Sent: 04 March 2019 08:40 > >> To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) <[email protected]> > >> Cc: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] > >> Subject: Re: [netmod] artwork folding: dual support modes? > >> > >> > >> > >> "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Adrian, > >>> I mostly agree with your last sentence. > >>> I think that if you always preserve whitespace then a single slash is > >>> fine. I.e. the single slash just breaks the line, and I think that > >>> this matches how editors, programming languages, etc normally behave. > >>> What I’m not keen on is using a single slash, and then automatically > >>> stripping leading whitespace on the line following a slash. > >> > >> > >> And this is the solution that I prefer. The reason for this is that I > >> view examples as something that is there to illustrate some point to > >> the reader, and I think that a prettier formatted example with less > >> noise helps the reader. I also think that is most cases, this works > >> well; i.e., most cases are _not_ on the form: > >> > >> > >> > >> 12345 78990 > >> > >> ^-------------- I need a line break here > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> For this problem, I prefer a solution that is intuitive and has less > >> noise and works for 90% of the cases, than a less intuitive solution > >> with more noise that works for 100% of the cases. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> /martin > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> If we want to have control of layout and be able to strip extra > >>> whitespace then my argument is that it is better to be explicit, and > >>> using two slashes is one way of achieving this. > >>> Thanks, > >>> Rob > >>> From: netmod <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > >>> On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel > >>> Sent: 27 February 2019 09:41 > >>> To: 'Joel Jaeggli' <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > >>> Cc: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > >>> Subject: Re: [netmod] artwork folding: dual support modes? > >>> Complete agreement, Joel. > >>> What follows may look better in proportional fonts. > >>> With a single slash we can wrap as follows > >>> 1234567 9012345 > >>> Goes to… > >>> 1234567 \ > >>> 9012345 > >>> …and unwrapping is easy. > >>> However, if I want to manually wrap the line with indentation > >>> The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog > >>> ..going to… > >>> The quick brown fox\ > >>> jumps over the lazy dog > >>> …I am going to unfold as… > >>> The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog > >>> Conversely, if I resolve this second case by stripping leading spaces > >>> I get… > >>> The quick brown foxjumps over the lazy dog > >>> So I have to fold as… > >>> The quick brown fox \ > >>> jumps over the lazy dog > >>> But this causes the first case to unfold as > >>> 1234567 9012345 > >>> …i.e., with missing spaces. > >>> This is what caused the use of the second slash so… > >>> 1234567 \ > >>> \ 9012345 > >>> …and… > >>> The quick brown fox\ > >>> \ jumps over the lazy dog > >>> So, my point is, if and only if we do not care about these “spaces on > >>> the fold” cases, we can operate with a single slash. > >>> Cheers, > >>> Adrian > >>> From: Joel Jaeggli > >>> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>> > >>> Sent: 27 February 2019 06:31 > >>> To: Adrian Farrel > >>> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>> > >>> Cc: Kent Watsen > >>> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>>; > >>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>> > >>> Subject: Re: [netmod] artwork folding: dual support modes? > >>> On Feb 26, 2019, at 14:26, Adrian Farrel > >>> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>> > >>> wrote: > >>> Hey. > >>> I’ve been having this discussion with Kent off-line, but thought it > >>> should come to the list. > >>> I don’t think it is a good idea to have two approaches. While it would > >>> be relatively easy to code for both approaches, it seems to add a > >>> degree of confusion if both have to be handled by the same code > >>> (consider deciding whether leading space characters are to be retained > >>> or not, something that can only be decided when the first non-space > >>> character is found), or by having different code for the two different > >>> cases. > >>> It doesn’t seem to me that both cases are needed. We can pick one or > >>> the other. > >>> A single slash has been used to wrap long lines in editors and shells > >>> for decades at this point. > >>> and yeah whatever it is one method seems better than two. > >>> And *if* we want to allow manual folding so that indents can be made > >>> to make the document more human-readable then we have to use a leading > >>> ‘\’ on continuation lines to show which spaces should be stripped and > >>> which retained. > >>> Cheers, > >>> Adrian > >>> From: netmod > >>> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>>> > >>> On Behalf Of Kent Watsen > >>> Sent: 25 February 2019 22:22 > >>> To: > >>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>> > >>> Subject: [netmod] artwork folding: dual support modes? > >>> I had a chat with the tools team recently and, in the course of > >>> things, it was implied that the double backslash approach we have now > >>> was both surprising and non-intuitive. > >>> This got me thinking that we may have thrown the proverbial baby out > >>> with the bathwater. > >>> That is, currently we have a header that reads: > >>> NOTE: '\\' line wrapping per BCP XX (RFC XXXX) > >>> So why not *also* support a header that reads (note the singe slash): > >>> NOTE: '\' line wrapping per BCP XX (RFC XXXX) > >>> Whereby this second form only supports the folded line continuing on > >>> column 1 (no indents). > >>> Thoughts? > >>> Kent // contributor > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> netmod mailing list > >>> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]%3cmailto:[email protected]>> > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list [email protected] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
