I'm sorry. I'm not very active in nettime. But I'm in Catalonia and I've seen too many dangerously "traditional" analysis in this listthat I need to intervene. I'm sorry I can't bring many details yet (I'm trying to find time to write but I'm too busy with a very fast realtime reality right now), but I'll try at least to bring a change of perspective to analyse the situation.
I would like to ask for more caution and respect for the people fight. To bring some element to refocus your perspective I like to remember that the 1st of October over 2 000 000 people, nor radical, nor corrupt, just people from any age - I've seen teenagers and very old people crying when they succeed to vote after queening sin 5 in the morning to defend the ballots-, from any ideological side (and I really mean any) and even wanting the independence or not, all together fighting online and offline for Democracy. Really. Catalonia is not about independence. We are ready for a level of democracy that we are not allowed to practice and the fight is about political freedom. When the analysis is from above talking about how bad are the bad guys from both sides and how people have no active opinion about that, it is not reflecting the groving maturity of spanish civil society , is avoiding the degree of self organization acheived on the 1 of October in Catalunya and trying to depict a symmetry that could relax us but that is just not real. There is no symmetry. There is [fast resum->] 1) repression and a fascist state; 2) people fighting in network having greatly hacked institutions that are now force in some interesting degrees to respond to the people (of course institution are rotten - I don't think anyone here can imaging that could be otherwise); 3) Podemos fighting for its own power and abandoning the people. [little note about corruption as an example: the difference between Catalunya and Spain is that while in Spain the PP(most currupt party) isstill massively voted, in Catalunya PdeCat have almost disappeared. So not everywhere the act of voting is used in the same way.And the false equality on the matter of corruption (of course both are corrupt, but in Catalonia we are wining in the effort to desmatelit and in Spain losing) in the discours it is a fallacy, one of the many that are useful to Podemos but not to the people fight] The analysis via the left respected categories it is helping Podemos discours that it is not only wrong in the field of the analysis of reallity but also , once more, destroying - with paternalismand cooptate imposing their representativeness - the transversal effort of the people to create a networked democracy that control their institutions and political parties. I hope I can be more specific soon. If you are interested, I wrote some more here, before the catalan referendum: https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/simona-levi/we-just-want-to-stop-pleading Best, Simona Levi El 6/10/17 a las 19:08, chml escribió: > (excuse my english) and the long mail > > Hello...I'm ussually a lurker of this mail list, but as I live in spain (bot > I'm not > spanish, born in southamerica) it's my intention to add some ideas to the > debate not to > start a flame! :) > > read this as you read an skeptical opinion and lot of this are in the > news...spanish or > international > > Reading international press, apart from few exceptions, it's like reading > Spanish press. > Bullshit. But also there's a situation in wich "nobody knows what is going to > happend". > Regarding this I would like to tell some things that there's no present in the > mainstream media. I will split it in points to organize it better and try to > avoid > argumentative chaos) > > *) Both governments, Central and Catalonian, are deeply corrupt: > > a) Central government is the most corrupt party in all Europe (sic). And > still in > government (that tells you a few things about the conservative mind en Spain, > but more > on this later). And as in Spain there's not extreme-right significantly > parties, so PP > involves a lot of right-wing voters with different approaches (catholics, > ultra-catholics and spanish-nationalist, liberals and ultraliberals and > mostly but not > all of Franco's nostalgics) that are separated in another countries, so their > representation and weight in politics is different (not less, different). > Also, due to > the spanish transition those who holds the power, symbolic capital and in a > good > proportion economic power are mostly the same than in Franco's era. > > b) Regarding Catalonian government two things: > > b.1) At least one of the parties that run the government coalition (Junts > pel Si) is > deeply flawed in corruption. At the point that the need to refund the > political party > (with the same corrupts inside, of course). This party was in government > almost times > since Franco and represented, and still represents, the right capitalist > entrepreneurship bourgeois of Catalonia (you can take a look at the Pujol > family). This > party never want the independence, but they used that idea to exchange > political > stances, mainly with right-wing governments. So they were always "moderate > catalanist". > (I'm going to resume, excuse me) > > This starts to change with Artur Mas government in the generalitat. When he > arrive > imposes a lot of cuts and drastic measures due to the economic crisis, this > led them to > several riots (in one of them the mossos, catalonian police, took the eye of > a woman > with a gum bullet (again, sorry for my english :)... > > b.2) due to the first independence referendum and the political crisis, > in the next > election according to the pools there were going to loss the government. So > they stated > this joint venture (Junts pel Si) with the support of ERC (Left republicans of > catalonia) and, outside the platform, CUP, anti-capitalist...you can imagine > that. So > the only program was independance. It's important to know, regarding this, > that > according to pools never in the history of Catalonia, not once until now, the > "yes" > would be a winning option. > > *) In this situation, Independence was a weapon, for both governments, to > still alive at > the end of the day. Puijdemont asking for things and exacerbating the > situation (it was > his mandate, obvious). And on the other hand, for Rajoy's government two > observations. > > a) Regarding the spanish electoral system, there's a prevalence for votes > outside of big > cities, so voting in Madrid, Barcelona or Bilbao worth much less than voting > in Segovia, > for example. If we take in consideration this and that in Spain there's a > bunch (but a > bunch) of older people you see that PP voters are: old people (+65 precisely) > and not > for the main capital cities (except Madrid province, not the city). So > Rajoy's voters > don't want to know nothing about and is in Rajoy's interest to present > himself like the > "spanish value holder" because that gives him votes (a lot) and almost > guarantee their > government stability. > > b) (this argument is on the news) The right in spain...and I'm tempted to say > that also > the left, the don't know about wining...when you win you give something to > the other > part. They only know to beat, to destroy the other. In this sense the catalan > government > did know that the referendum was going to be a fail but hey use it as a > negotiation > weapon (this, I think, it's deeply irresponsible). This is not a matter of > referendum > yes or no, I will you there soon. Is a matter of a government using people's > belif to > exchange favors (Artur Mas itself admitted this, with other words of course). > Right now, > today, the central government pass a new law so companies can get out of > catalonia real > quick...so well see what happends > > So...let's say, this is like House of Cards, but real. It's disgusting, but > it is like > this. This situation led to an unprecedented polarization in wich (like in > many other > historical events) those who are in the middle get punch for both sides > > With all this, I will focus more on your email between lines. > > > El 06/10/17 a las 13:24, Patrice Riemens escribió: >> Reading stuff in newspapers and others the last few days I am getting >> increasingly >> shocked - >> and worried, about what appears to be mainstream (media & politics) opinion >> wrt the >> 'events' >> in Catalonia. > What do you expect? They are media conglomerates! ;) >> >> It boils down to something like 'Catalonians are nationalistic fools, what >> they do is >> ramp illegal, >> Spain's unity should be upheld and respected, Rajoy and state forces act >> fully inside the >> constitution and legality' etc. > The second part it's true, Rajoy and friends are acting inside the > constitution and the > law. And that's the problem, that he is ONLY acting inside the law and > constitution when > the situation and, most of all, his position demands that he do politics. But > again, the > way of doing politics for Rajoy is via the judges...because that's what is > keeping him > in "alive". > > And the media...well, they are in most cases following the trends. >> >> EU stands aside, while European leaders fall over each other to support the >> Rajoy regime - >> with sole exception Belgium's Michel, who's probably got 'his ears cleaned >> out' (Dutch >> loc) >> by now ... > Obvious...the EU condems the police brutality but says that is an internal > problem and > should be solved with the constitutional law...IF the EU gets involved, think > what would > happend with Córcega, Euskadi, Baviera, Belgium (that why Michel talks!, > Scotland > again...and the ones I', forgetting).So...personally, I hope they get > involved, because > I think that the EU is a fail like this, Spain needs a new constitution that > leaves > behind Franco a all the dictatorship past and catalonian people deserve to > vote a > referendum. But again...at least if in Spain we don't have an old people > gonocide, i > doubt this would happen. Also, hope I'm wrong >> The insane brutality of the Spanish police is papered over, just as is the >> political >> steering of the 'independent' justice, but far worse, 3 centuries of >> oppression, >> culminating >> in 40 years of ultra-Castillian Franquist oppression, which almost wipped >> out above ground >> Catalan language and culture, and finds its thinly veiled admirators in >> Rajoy's Partido >> Popular, are all completely forgotten. > Yes, but not only catalan! Basque people, Murcian people...in Spain there's a > lot more > than the "catalan-radicals" wich, under my humble opinion they are not the > "most" rebel > in spain, sorry. In Murcia for example the PP governs, but those people have > a long > anarchist tradition. Franco¡'s regime not only wiped out catalanist...they > wiped out > half spain and in concrete parts, more (in Euskadi, but also in Madrid and > Galicia). So > for internal distribution that makes less difference that outside perhaps. > With this I'm > not saying that there's no catalan singularity, I'm saying that there's not > the only one > for sure. >> >> And never mind millions of Catalans braving extreme odds to exercise what is >> the most >> fundamental democratic right: to vote and be counted. But does the >> mainstream care for >> democracy any longer? > Yes and this is another lesson that we have learned I think. In first place > the most > iconic moment for democracy is voting and the media don't cover that well. > That's (in my > view) because we are not in democracies anymore since long time ago. And on > the other > hand, honestly, this referendum idea was not executed in good ways. finnally, > voting for > what you want, when you want and wathever you want is not a democratic right > in > contemporary democracies...I don't now none that says that ;) >> >> With a mainstream like that, who needs extremists and terrorists for the >> descent into the >> unknown? And if Madrid indeed pulls out the 'nuclear option', Article 155 of >> the Spanish >> Constitution: total take over over Catalonia - and Madrid is on the verge of >> doing so, I´d >> say: pack up for the beach - or Barcelona. > Please, don't say Madrid...there a bunch of people in Madrid who fight with > catalonian > people, wants changes and support the referendum! > > > Finally...if you reach that point I would ask a question: > > Don't you miss, in all this, material politics? let's say...instead of > "transversal", > "cultural" and "indentitarian" politics. Some really left and material > politics to > improve people lives and wealth?. Because I can tell you that this is a > "must" not only > in Catalonia, and if they get their independence in this way, they are going > to be > (unfortunately) economically really fucked up. >> Cheers all the same from Christiania, bit of a weird place in this context. > Cheers from a Madrid citizen staying in Ankara! > and yes...would love to be there! > > >> p+2D! >> >> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission >> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >> # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: [email protected] >> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: [email protected] > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
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