Dear nettime list - a little late to the party (and it seems the conversation has already moved on …) i do like to pose some observations/ questions that this thread has triggered for me — although i must admit that i have not read marx (nor rosseau) myself. that’s probably me just being lazy as i did inherit a copy of “grundrisse” from my dad and i was impressed that he had sat down and used a ruler to underline important parts throughout the whole book. Btw jean amery writes about going through the waves not having had read marx in 1930s and again in 1960s …
a little while ago i helped facilitate a conversation about eco-feminism from an australian-aborignial and a western perspective between two philosophers: mary graham, a kombumerri elder from queensland and freya mathews from victoria. mary made a comment that for her western philosophy is pretty much the intellect of the arena (and this recent thread on nettime did bring her point home in a way). however, how i interpret her observation is that one difference of aboriginal intellectuality to a western (academic) one is that it stems from within a community context with very clear responsibilities to kin and "country" (as in more the bioregion one lives in -- not the nation state). needless to say that having such "skin in the game" obviously grounds and helps maturing the conversation culture. and i find myself engaging less and less with theorists, consultants, spokeshumans etc if i sense that they do not have much of their own skin in the game. a move i would not consider as an anti-intellectual ... this obviously does not help with this email threads' intent to identify what strategy forward would succeed in capturing the vanguard consciousness necessary for whatever our planetary future holds for "us" meaning humanity (but from a left perspective). i did take the point, tough, that theoretic tools analysing the past / present may not be adequate to guide the way forward. however, i did wonder in the light of this thread why not more recent examples of social movements where reviewed in order to articulate an argument. brian pointed out that marx and engels were discussing their theories with workers for two years, which is something i'd might come back to. for instance, my recollection of visiting occupy in melbourne is that i was struck by the social awkwardness of it and this is not meant in a judgmental way. i think we deal a lot with awkwardness in our intimate, personal and social relationships (and i am sure freud does have a lot to say about this). this may has been different in zuccotti park. i doubt it, though, and i do think it is only to increase out of multiple reasons ... in this regard (and given that "forming tribes" has been mentioned as well) i find the strategies of aboriginal communities organising themselves, f.ex., around native title claims (however patronising and piss-weak this australian law might be -- as in it is mere a recognition without direct rights) more enlightening. i guess in a different context that is not un-similar to what bauwens and bollier mean with scale out (not up), how much this will hold up when things turn nasty is another question. given this list's own limitation in regard to its demographic -- and following marx and engels' example -- i do wonder if one would devise a global focus group on the emerging (class) consciousness, where would you go, who would be included and what questions would you ask them? cheers jan PS if you want to listen to mary and freya's conversation, a recording can be found here: http://ned.neture.org/ned-conversations On 31/10/18 11:00 am, David Erixon wrote: >> On 30 Oct 2018, at 13:44, Ian Alan Paul <ianalanp...@gmail.com >> <mailto:ianalanp...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> It's possible to critique biological essentialism in relation to >> race/sex, while also defending the reality of race/sex in the sense >> that they are real distinctions/categorizations that have been >> historically acted upon by the material forces of capital. > > Hm. > “Defending”?! > Of course we must recognize race (and thus racism; without the anchor > point of race, there can’t be racism) in order to understand apartheid > (and other forms of oppression based on the social ghost / misinformed > social construction of “race”), but that’s rather different from using > it to build a preferred future. We should know better. > > If we want an “a-racial” world (I assume that’s what we want, but I > could be wrong; lex SA and the politics of ANC) then cementing the > notion of race hardly does the job. It perpetuates it. > > I find the position of using “race” to build a vision of the future > deeply cynical, manipulative, nostalgic and/or naive. Even racist. Or at > least, metaphorically, tone deaf. Or do you believe that the difference > between “races” is greater than “within” race? Then you are factually > incorrect. And that’s not a humble opinion. > > Again, I understand that race is essential for analysis of past > problems, but I reject it’s essential for building a future vision. > > And whether we subscribe to capitalism (as in risk/reward, > freedom/prison/lack of choice and collective/individual > intelligence/stupidity; thus over time concentrating power to > people/class with wealth/timing/luck) or more regulated economic > frameworks (promoting wealth distribution and other types of balancing > interventions impacting “quality of life”, equal opportunity, fairness > and justice), explain to me how the notion of race informs a way > forward? What do you want to do with your “defending” of race going > forward? In what way does it inform your vision? And I will not buy a > lazy “I don’t know; that’s not my job”. You need to be able to take your > position into reality. Lay it bare. > > I get the intersectional analysis, I get the oppressed and oppressor (as > a way of analyzing history and even contemporary society), but what are > you proposing? In what way will this analysis help us going forward? > Just to get concrete. > > The best theories are deeply practical. Imho. > >> What is being pushed back against is the notion that you can ever >> understand class absent of an understanding of race and sex. > > Of course you can. Just look at cash flow and balance sheet. How much > profit are you making (or loss) and what is your net asset position? > Look at it from sperm to worm (ie over a lifetime). Compare. Contrast. > > Believe me, I’m a son of parents, both adopted, one racially reassigned > (my dad was the result of a “white man” raping a 15 yo sami girl; > consequently forced by state to be put into orphanage and later fostered > by two “Swedes”); the other “domiciled” (my mum, born into a traveling > community, reassigned to a farmer family by state; this was Sweden in > the 30s), I could easily fall into both race and sex analysis (been > there, done that, got the t-shirt), but reality is, they were REDUCED to > categories, not liberated from it. What got them into the situation, is > not the same as what got them out of the situation. What got them out > were access and opportunities based on socio economic conditions. > > Now, you might find that there are high correlation between race and > social class, but race do not equal class. Neither does sex. And even if > that WAS the case (which it factually isn’t; and probabilities is not > valid here, unless you’re a Maoist and ready to sacrifice humanity for > ideology; you obviously must have skipped the multi variable analysis in > statistics class) then we should be back at fighting for class. Because > anything else is a slippery slope to equality meaning we must all BE the > same (or even worse; the oppressed becomes the oppressor) — which we are > not. Unless you do believe that we can only be equal if we are the same. > Or that “difference” somehow merits any type of “special treatment” > (white OR black, man OR female, etc). > > I’m not buying what you’re selling. But I’m open to me misinterpreting > your ad. The copy could just be too academic for my comprehension. Talk > to me like a worker / consumer please. > > What’s in it for me and my people? > > All the best, > David > > > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
