https://www.upress.umn.edu/book-division/books/toward-a-global-idea-of-race
Rachel O'Reilly Artist | Writer | Curator | Research Curatorial Advisor, Ex-Embassy http://ex-embassy.com/en/ Seminar Leader, How to Do Things with Theory, Dutch Art Institute https://dutchartinstitute.eu Current Phone: +49 15771670587 <+49%201577%201670587> www.racheloreilly.net On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 5:54 PM Alice Yang <[email protected]> wrote: > Trust me, race and gender are not social ghosts. They have extremely > material consequences. > > On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:48 AM Alexander Bard <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Dear Justin >> >> Was Karl Marx an idealist or a materialist? I'm perfectly happy to leave >> that for you and others to decide. Because I'm a pragmatist and my ideas >> are pragmatist and the rest is just wordplay to me. I'm interested in >> factual truth and in whether something works or does not work. I'm also >> interested in opinion being challenged on its own merit. Therefore I >> radically separate person and opinion. The whole idea that who speaks >> affects the value of what is being said is just value relativism of the >> worst kind. I know this is a popular kindergarden game among identitarians >> of both the extreme right and the extreme left (as if "being seen and >> heard" must be divided equally among some five-year-olds). Because I can >> see no other value in this habit than infantile attention-seeking. Which >> means it is in itself victim-seeking and therefore victimhood-encouraging >> and certainly not heroic and empowering for anybody. And I can't think of >> anything less Marxist than that. As I said, identitarianism is Rousseau >> through and through. How it even sneaked into "The Left" beats me. >> >> Everybody should radically be allowed to speak and each argument should >> be judged on its own merits, not according to who forwards it. That >> strengthens the overall the debate the most. That is if you're interested >> in debates having successful and productive outcomes. At least I am. >> Anything else is just a waste of valuable time. So does race exist? Yes, it >> does, undeniably, but only as a social ghost. My brother and I had no idea >> one of us was black and of us was white until we where 14. We had no idea >> we ought to have cared. Now we can spend our entire lives going on and on >> about social ghosts and, like David pointed out, end up being the very >> people who defend and keep the social ghosts the most and the longest. >> However I find that tragic. I want to move on. And class being firmly tied >> to capital and power is therefore the factual overarching category under >> which we can then deal with minor issues like race and gender. Effectively. >> Now if that is not a materialist argument as much as an activist one, then >> I don't know what is. If anything is idealist and not materialist it must >> certainly be the obsession with social ghosts. But sure, the I and the M >> labels are yours to decide. I could not care less. >> >> Best intentions >> Alexander >> >> Den fre 2 nov. 2018 kl 04:00 skrev Justin Charles < >> [email protected]>: >> >>> Coming in late to this thread but the anti-identity current that's >>> growing more and more prevalent on the left lately seems to be somewhat in >>> opposition to contrary to materialism. To say that "class is class and >>> only class has universal validity" strikes me as pretty idealist, not >>> materialist. OneWhile race may not exist to Alexander Bard and Candace >>> Owens, I'd argue that maybe it doesn't exist for them because materially it >>> need not. Alexander is a white man. Candace Owens, while a black woman, has >>> a class position that allows her to skip some over much of what it looks >>> like to be black for most black people, who aren't well-compensated >>> conservative (or liberal) commentators. Most black people's class position >>> is deeply intertwined with the color of their skin. I don't think I need to >>> go into the historical reasons for this. I'd also say that Asad >>> Haider's book was in no way championing victimhood. If that's what one >>> takes away from it then they've read an entirely different book than I did. >>> >>> On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 12:05 PM tbyfield <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Ian, this idea of 'civility' should be unpacked a bit, because the >>>> ~word >>>> lumps together a disparate range of concerns. At its worst, a lot of >>>> babble about civility boils down to is tone-policing, which relies on >>>> etiquette as an all-purpose tool for micromanaging rhetoric — and in >>>> doing so, limiting and even delegitimizing positions of every type >>>> (subjective, relational, political, whatever). In other contexts — >>>> notably, in 'centrist' politics in the US — it serves as a rationale >>>> for institutionalist pliability: 'bipartisan' cooperation, etc. But >>>> those two uses are very different from its function as a foil for the >>>> frightening prospect of outright political violence. These different >>>> strands, or layers if you like, are hopelessly tangled, and that >>>> confusion in itself has serious consequences — hence the culturalist >>>> use of the word 'strategy,' which often is used to get at the nebulous >>>> realm in which individual behavior aligns with (or 'is constitutive >>>> of') >>>> abstract, impersonal forces. That's a very roundabout way to get at the >>>> obvious problem, which is the direct way that increasingly uncivil >>>> political discourse foments violence. And, in a way, that's the >>>> problem: >>>> the left's path for translating ideals into political practices is >>>> hobbled and misdirected at every stage, whereas for the right it's >>>> becoming all too direct. >>>> >>>> My gut sense is that Land is symptomatic of the left's repudiation of >>>> force — violence — as a legitimate form of politics. Some, like him, >>>> sense that and embark a theoretical trajectory that tacitly accepts or >>>> even actively embraces violence. I'll leave that there, because I don't >>>> want to debate it or even to see a debate about it on this list. >>>> Nettime >>>> is fragile, and decades of accumulated effort could be poisoned with a >>>> few, um, 'uncivil' messages. There was a time when the solution was >>>> widely said to be more speech, but at a time when 'more speech' means >>>> trollbot networks that systematically and strategically subvert civil >>>> contexts I think that rule is more problematic than ever. >>>> >>>> As for Bard, whenever his mail appears in inbox my first reaction is >>>> "When's the new book coming out?" But that's a rhetorical question — >>>> no answer needed, thanks. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Ted >>>> >>>> >>>> On 28 Oct 2018, at 10:48, Ian Alan Paul wrote: >>>> >>>> > Brett - I don't think that the problem of the Left is that we don't >>>> > spend >>>> > enough time with people who think it's worthwhile to discuss the >>>> > potential >>>> > virtues of "Candace Owens, Nick Land and/or Adolf Hitler." If >>>> > anything, the >>>> > Left needs to thoroughly rid itself of the liberal and depoliticizing >>>> > notion that we should all simply get along in the name of preserving >>>> > civility, esp. in a historical moment while fascist gangs are >>>> > literally >>>> > roaming the streets beating up migrants, synagogues are being shot >>>> up, >>>> > and >>>> > pipe bombs are being mailed to politicians. >>>> > >>>> > I don't think Alexander's ideas are worth engaging with or even >>>> > refuting to >>>> > be entirely honest, as I hope is obvious to most people on Nettime by >>>> > this >>>> > point. We live in times that are too extreme and urgent to expend any >>>> > attention or energy dialoguing with disingenuous apologists for the >>>> > Right . >>>> <...> >>>> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission >>>> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >>>> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >>>> # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >>>> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: [email protected] >>>> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Justin Charles >>> 862.216.2467 >>> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission >>> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >>> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >>> # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >>> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: [email protected] >>> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: >> >> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission >> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >> # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: [email protected] >> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: > > > > -- > Alice > www.alicesparklykat.com > insta: @alicesparklykat <http://instagram.com/alicesparklykat> > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: [email protected] > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
# distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: [email protected] # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
