yes, and thus it means that we might return to the email of Flick Harisson (the first one): what if? what if things had turned differently? we assess the situation based on a failure, and retroactively wonder whether or not they were organized or spontaneous; but maybe we should include in our thoughts how a "success" (to be determined, I do not exactly what it could have been) would have, certainly, changed our analysis - no? (or maybe it's not useful to use this fictitious temporality?)
fn __________________________________ ________________ On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 2:21 PM Molly Hankwitz <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello Geert, Tara, others... > > Well, that's it, right? They did not have an idea, besides petty > vandalism, what to do (being leaderless and likely to be followers rather > than leaders) > > Actually, I heard, but have not confirmed, that they were trying to get > the actual paper votes of the electoral college...to burn them so as to > eliminate the election results. But, I need to fact check... > > Molly > > > molly hankwitz - she/her > http://bivoulab.org > > > On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 11:39 AM Geert Lovink <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Molly and Tara! >> >> A leader, yes… but what were they supposed to do there? Stay? Take over, >> but what exactly? It’s all about staging. Now they were primarily staging >> for social media, for themselves, individually, roaming around in a >> building, looking for what? In the end they were not one will, one social >> body. And this is required for a revolution or coup to succeed. Most likely >> they were after some other experience, some other type of change, perhaps. >> >> Best, Geert >> >> On 8 Jan 2021, at 7:52 pm, Molly Hankwitz <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> not to nitpick, but they had a command and that was from Trump...to >> "storm the capitol" >> after that they had no serious intent to occupy the Capitol or, for >> instance, to issue demands... >> they were there to disrupt the electoral college vote confirmation by >> Congress - on behalf of their leader (Trump) >> >> your points about 'whiteness' are well-taken >> we should not obscure 'reach' of whiteness trope, although one could >> argue, I think that those caught up in the swirl of 'whiteness' may think >> to themselves that they are a 'class' of some importance... >> >> peace >> molly >> >> >> >> molly hankwitz - she/her >> http://bivoulab.org >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 9:58 AM Tara Mcpherson <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> It was definitely a mob, and I think Geert is right that this particular >>> event had no clear command. >>> >>> But I would caution against assuming these rioters were all poor white >>> folk or that this was primarily about class. Many in the mob have now >>> been identified, and there were plenty of white collar hooligans in the >>> mix, some flying in on their private jets. The formation and legacies of >>> whiteness in the US are a key animating factor here in a way that crosses >>> class lines. It also fuels the way the mob claimed the title “patriot” and >>> invoked 1776. >>> >>> Tara >>> >>> (Sent by pneumatic tube.) >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> >>> on behalf of Geert Lovink <[email protected]> >>> *Sent:* Friday, January 8, 2021 8:13:54 AM >>> *To:* a moderated mailing list for net criticism < >>> [email protected]> >>> *Subject:* Re: <nettime> made for TV, made for social media >>> >>> Good question, Keith. >>> >>> Was it a putch without a purpose of a mob without a cause? For sure they >>> were all revved up, dazed by meme magick and shit, looking for the best >>> selfie opportunity. >>> >>> Once we enter the heart of the power, and roam around there, we do not >>> face power as such. No need to repeat here what Foucault and many other >>> after him have written about power. We know, but what if one has to >>> experience this at first hand, as riot tourists? >>> >>> The warriors were running through corridors, without a plan, needless to >>> say, without their leader, as he was sitting in front of his TV set, around >>> the corner, enjoying the images, watching the spectacle unfold, yet >>> remaining silent at the decisive moment. >>> >>> There was no command, no plan, not even a serious counterforce. At best >>> it was a ‘disruption’ such as promoted by Silicon Valley venture >>> capitalists. >>> >>> Geert >>> >>> > On 8 Jan 2021, at 4:39 pm, Keith Sanborn <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > Put another way, was it the burning of the Reichstag or the storming >>> of the Winter Palace? or neither? >>> >>> >>> >>> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission >>> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >>> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >>> # more info: >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!4ZlRYQvxRnxEGpBaDolKOdJ7WIEPd9iTmb7mHr3uHhhjtRY6B2Z47HSnjMr5MhY$ >>> # archive: >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.nettime.org__;!!LIr3w8kk_Xxm!4ZlRYQvxRnxEGpBaDolKOdJ7WIEPd9iTmb7mHr3uHhhjtRY6B2Z47HSnGQyZ9-Y$ >>> contact: [email protected] >>> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: >>> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission >>> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >>> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >>> # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >>> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: [email protected] >>> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: >> >> >> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission >> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >> # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: [email protected] >> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: [email protected] > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
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