On Jan 12, 2021, at 2:13 PM, From: Dmytri Kleiner <[email protected]> wrote: > > What does? Do I need to be pedantic here and explain that they where > attempting to use Jo?o Pedro, a leader of MST, against China? They are > obviously using a third party logic, Jo?o Pedro is not a leader of > China, it is perfectly ok to disagree with him about China, without > denying his view on MST! Indeed, the soundest position would be to draw > about his view of MST while defering to Chinese workers about China. > > Also, since the person who posted the quote from Jo?o Pedro is also a > third party, and not involved with MST, they didn't know that this is > not the current view or strategy of Jo?o Pedro or the MST, illustrating > that it is difficult to know if your analysis is sound when you are not > involved, which is kinda the central point here.
Dmytri, I have no interest in engaging further in whatever it is you’re doing, or think you’re doing, here. But just to clarify something in this thread. I did *not* attempt "to use João Pedro Stedile, a leader of MST, against China.” You may want to see it that way, but that doesn’t make it true. I didn’t even make any significant judgement of China or the CCP, of which I know next to nothing. I don’t need to *use* anyone… It’s a *very* simple fact that China (and its corporate proxies) is involved in massive agribusiness in the interior of Brazil that runs counter to the objectives of the MST, *on its own terms*. Not to be pedantic, but you know, it turns out that the activities of the Chinese state (or the US or EU) aren’t contained inside its borders, and therefore the state is responsible for more than its relationship with its own people. It also has a relationship with others around the world to whom it is not accountable. *I can’t believe I felt the need to write this here* I don’t need to pass some uninformed judgement on anyone to make that observation, I can trust the judgements of those working in that context, which is *in fact* where my observations came from. I could go back and forth with you about my experience with the MST and their multi-faceted (and multi-coalition-based) responses to global agribusiness, including that originating from China. I could go on to discuss how the work of the MST is connected with a global network of agrarian movements that take different shapes in different contexts (Via Campesina which includes orgs like the Family Farm Defenders based in nearby (to me) Wisconsin). About how I learned of the work of the MST not because I was trying to leverage something as a “third party,” but because the work they do has direct relevance to land-based movements where I live. It’s something to learn from and alongside. But, whatever, based on the fact that you responded earlier with an article that was probably a first page search result looking to see who Stedile was, you don’t seem to care about such details. The only value that article seemed to have for you was as a discursive retort (seemingly because it included the word “China” in it while acknowledging shifting geopolitical dynamics). In fact, you even *introducing* the MST into the conversation was simply a matter of convenience for you, one amongst an interchangeable array of movements that you can mobilize as an example. Maybe try taking your own advice before committing to your responses, you know, like not speaking about things for which you have no stakes and of which you seem to know little. I’ll leave it to others to reply further if you/they wish to continue. Just try leaving out further gross mischaracterizations of my comments if you can. Take care all, Ryan # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: [email protected] # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
