i know nothing but in america the strategy is red, in europe it's green. On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 10:49 PM Ryan Griffis <ryan.grif...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 12, 2021, at 2:13 PM, From: Dmytri Kleiner <d...@telekommunisten.net> > wrote: > > > > What does? Do I need to be pedantic here and explain that they where > > attempting to use Jo?o Pedro, a leader of MST, against China? They are > > obviously using a third party logic, Jo?o Pedro is not a leader of > > China, it is perfectly ok to disagree with him about China, without > > denying his view on MST! Indeed, the soundest position would be to draw > > about his view of MST while defering to Chinese workers about China. > > > > Also, since the person who posted the quote from Jo?o Pedro is also a > > third party, and not involved with MST, they didn't know that this is > > not the current view or strategy of Jo?o Pedro or the MST, illustrating > > that it is difficult to know if your analysis is sound when you are not > > involved, which is kinda the central point here. > > Dmytri, I have no interest in engaging further in whatever it is you’re > doing, or think you’re doing, here. > > But just to clarify something in this thread. > > I did *not* attempt "to use João Pedro Stedile, a leader of MST, against > China.” You may want to see it that way, but that doesn’t make it true. I > didn’t even make any significant judgement of China or the CCP, of which I > know next to nothing. I don’t need to *use* anyone… It’s a *very* simple > fact that China (and its corporate proxies) is involved in massive > agribusiness in the interior of Brazil that runs counter to the objectives > of the MST, *on its own terms*. Not to be pedantic, but you know, it turns > out that the activities of the Chinese state (or the US or EU) aren’t > contained inside its borders, and therefore the state is responsible for > more than its relationship with its own people. It also has a relationship > with others around the world to whom it is not accountable. *I can’t > believe I felt the need to write this here* I don’t need to pass some > uninformed judgement on anyone to make that observation, I can trust the > judgements of those working in that context, which is *in fact* where my > observations came from. > > I could go back and forth with you about my experience with the MST and > their multi-faceted (and multi-coalition-based) responses to global > agribusiness, including that originating from China. I could go on to > discuss how the work of the MST is connected with a global network of > agrarian movements that take different shapes in different contexts (Via > Campesina which includes orgs like the Family Farm Defenders based in > nearby (to me) Wisconsin). About how I learned of the work of the MST not > because I was trying to leverage something as a “third party,” but because > the work they do has direct relevance to land-based movements where I live. > It’s something to learn from and alongside. But, whatever, based on the > fact that you responded earlier with an article that was probably a first > page search result looking to see who Stedile was, you don’t seem to care > about such details. The only value that article seemed to have for you was > as a discursive retort (seemingly because it included the word “China” in > it while acknowledging shifting geopolitical dynamics). In fact, you even > *introducing* the MST into the conversation was simply a matter of > convenience for you, one amongst an interchangeable array of movements that > you can mobilize as an example. > > Maybe try taking your own advice before committing to your responses, you > know, like not speaking about things for which you have no stakes and of > which you seem to know little. I’ll leave it to others to reply further if > you/they wish to continue. Just try leaving out further gross > mischaracterizations of my comments if you can. > > Take care all, > Ryan > > > > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
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