Debord says somewhere, whenever someone who is an enemy agrees with me, I look for the errors in their logic.
Debord does not use the word ennemi, but it was the most general paraphrase I cd invent without access to the original as I am in transit. Apparently her errors are historical; something concerning when making historical comparisons. It is difficult to measure degrees of debauchery, of murderousness. De Sade tried and the surfeit of war porn in the news is comparable if not as inclined to resort to a Sadean calculus. War porn appeals to such comparison but relies on total excess, the very thing which links them with Sade. What is interesting in her comparisons is pointing the finger back at Europe and the USA. In a sense, it preempts the kind of argument from hypocrisy in response that Putin has already employed, a banner which he hoists at the same time he appeals to the sacrifices made by Soviet Union in what is called the Great Patriotic War or more literally the Great War of the Fatherland. > On May 2, 2022, at 11:42 AM, rob lucas <robjlu...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > This recent NLR review of one of Applebaum's books, which includes a bit of a > political profile, might be of interest in this discussion: > > https://newleftreview.org/issues/ii126/articles/susan-watkins-the-fractured-right > > > > >> On Mon, 2 May 2022, 10:32 carl guderian, <ca...@vermilion-sands.com> wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> You can count me among those who used to look askance at Applebaum. Back in >> the Noughts, she was a regular and legitimate target of Sadly, No!, a blog I >> used to frequent. She’d even received from Orban (I think) the same >> far-right Hungarian honor also given to Trump hanger-on Sebastian Gorka, the >> one that lets you add “v” to your last name. Her husband is Polish and had >> been a cabinet minister in an earlier center-right government there. He and >> they were swept out when Poland went further right and, maybe, seeing where >> it was leading, she seems to have mellowed somewhat. From her articles since >> then, she seems to have stopped moving to the right and maybe even piulled >> back a bit, while the right races toward fascism. Or maybe the world going >> crazier, she just seems relatively sane and more liberal now. >> >> I still don’t entirely trust her, but she appears to be more of an ally >> these days, and did warn about neofascism and Putin. Has she learned >> anything since the last Cold War? We’ll see... >> >> Your mileage (kilometrage) may vary, and some settling may occur during >> shipping. >> >> Carl >> >> >> > On 1 mei 2022, at 22:21, Ted Byfield <tedbyfi...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > Allan, WRT Russia/Ukraine one notable feature of the current US political >> > landscape is that a fair number of ostensible leftists are making >> > arguments that are remarkably similar to fascist trolls like Tucker >> > Carlson. I'm no fan of Applebaum's at all, so when I saw her name I was >> > skeptical; but as I read through her essay, nothing she said jumped out at >> > me as outrageously skewed. Since your comment didn't offer any specific >> > criticisms, could you be persuaded to do so? >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Ted >> > >> > On 1 May 2022, at 15:00, allan siegel A Train wrote: >> > >> >> Hello Nettimers >> >> I find it odd that Anne Applebaum's questionable commentary on the events >> >> - and historical references - in Ukraine are uncritically posted here. >> >> Anne Applebaum is a notorious right-wing ideologue of the unquestionable >> >> neoliberal persuasion who has been lauded for her attacks on left-leaning >> >> politics (to say the least). As the conflict in Ukraine becomes >> >> increasingly enmeshed in the myopic politics of the cold-war and as >> >> America descends into pre-civil rights post war policies it becomes >> >> increasingly important to consider who is describing reality and from >> >> what vantage point. Most people in the U.S. still believe that the atomic >> >> bomb was used to save the lives of U.S. soldiers and to end WW II. A very >> >> questionable assumption. Saber rattling by Biden and others indebted to >> >> military contractors won't bring democracy to Ukraine or necessarily even >> >> peace. >> >> Best >> >> Allan >> > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission >> > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >> > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >> > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org >> > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: >> > >> > >> >> # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission >> # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, >> # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets >> # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org >> # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: > # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission > # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
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