On November 13, 2003 01:26 pm, Melissa Reese wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi John, > > Thanks for all your comments...they are helpful and encouraging. For > the moment, I'll just reply to this one bit... > > On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 10:28:07 AM PST, you wrote: > > Well, first, I wrote: > >> 3) As a total "newbie" getting ready to perform my first Linux > >> installation, should I be concerned enough about these various > >> issues that I should perhaps pay my local computer tech to come > >> over here and hold my hand as I go through this process? > > Then you replied thusly: > > You could if your computer tech isn't a Windows weenie who only > > knows wizards and the MS bible of "reinstall if it doesn't work". A > > hard habit to get out of, I can tell you. > > I've certainly encountered the type described above, but he's not one > of them (as evidenced by his reluctance to simply re-install when he's > helped me over the past four years with my troublesome Win98SE and > WinME computers...often finding more focused solutions). I feel that I > can trust him to help me with my Mandrake installation, as he has a > lot of experience with not only Windows, but also Linux distros and > Mac. Before he went into business for himself, he was for many years > the computer hardware/OS/network guy for Boeing, and dealt with > everything from mainframes to the various flavors of PCs and laptops > with a variety of OSs. > <snip>
He sounds like a good guy, Melissa. I'd lock him in a room, feed him and keep him. :-) Actually, given his background that doesn't surprise me. People that administer complex computing enviornments like Boeing's are used to just about everything there is. Who knows, he might even like Mandrake well enough to visit us here. :-) > > [Stop reading here if you don't want to bother with some tangential > rambling.] > > Being naturally inclined to digress, I do want to make a *general* > comment or two (or three or more!) with regards to the attitudes often > expressed by "loyalists" of one OS or another (not at all pointed at > you, John, though this digression is certainly inspired by a concept > alluded to in your comment quoted above)... > > As a long-time Windows user who reads just about everything I can get > ahold of when I'm curious about something, I very often encounter - > from Linux users more than others - comments that seem uncomfortably > elitist (regardless of how possibly justified, or offered with some > humor). Because of that, enhanced by the often self-styled perception > amongst many Linux users that one must be sufficiently "with a clue" > (as opposed to being "clueless Windows wimps") in order to truly > appreciate the superiority of Linux over Windows, I see many fellow > "Windows wimps" become discouraged and decide not to even try a Linux > distribution. Unfortunately, that's the kind of thing that happens > when this sort of rivalry becomes an almost religious issue, and it > does nothing for the wider migration of the "unwashed masses" from > Windows to Linux (perhaps a very reasonable and desirable thing). > > The same sort of religious debate can happen in many areas...even in > sea kayaking (those who believe in rudders versus those who don't, > etc.). Just for the record, I believe the only true path to > enlightenment is rudderless! ;-) > > I am one to speak my mind, especially if I feel some kind of "truth" > is on my side, and I can also easily understand and even appreciate > the humor in comments I often read from Linux users with regards to > Windows (and its users...myself included), but other people might be > more sensitive to what they consider elitism of any sort, and if you > really do want more people to consider alternatives to Windows - and > Linux disros in particular - perhaps even the *appearance* of elitism > is something to consider avoiding. Ironically, isn't Linux supposed to > be more of a "for the people" thing than Windows? If so, elitism > really has no place in its culture...especially in places like news > groups and mail lists where curious "Windows wimps" might be exploring > the idea of a possible migration to Linux based OSs. > > Whew!...got my little "rant-o-the-day" out of the way, so I can now > climb into my kayak and go visit my whale friends (who don't care one > way or the other about Linux or Windows! :-)). > > - -- > Melissa > > PGP public keys: > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]&Body=Please%20send%20keys > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > iD8DBQE/s/ZFjVbXUvsE8ukRAsb0AKDoR2cmQoz4B7y9Pd9xJRVvhm8cKwCgxlwx > aaiFZ/wPlHFfK9QpgkUNu28= > =36vo > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- I'm not one for religious wars, usually. Whether it has to do with rudders on kayaks or operating systems. (I tend to be rudderless myself. :) ) I used the term "windows weenie" to describe that too often encountered MSCE who really hasn't a clue about networking and shouldn't be let near anytning but a standalone PC. Not their fault, really, the training is awful. Still, I've had more trouble reports from these people about thier ADSL, HDSL, T1 and highter and ISDN not working. When I've gone out to the site I find our mutual customer ripping their hair out and a spanking new Windows installation to boot. In once case the MSCE had decided that a ski trip to Whistler was more important than his customer. I can't tell you the number of times I've found cords unplugged, miscofigured NIC cards and simply not typing in release and renew on the command line. In one case, the guy who went to Whistler, he told the customer to call in a trouble to the telco in the hope that someone there understood Linux, which is what they were using as a server, DMZ, firewall and spam filter. After plugging the guy into the ADSL I set up the NIC, registered it (he'd put a new one in to replace the perfectly good one he'd removed) and stopped and restarted the network. In short about 10 minutes work. The ADSL was up and running. That guy doesn't have many clients now, from what I hear. Another example of windows weenie is me when I first installed Mandrake way back around 6.2. I did the uninstall/reinstall cycle until it was rudely pointed out to me on another list that I didn't need to do that and to RTFM. The nick was someone called Joe Hill. I think I was complaining about sound which was harder to configure back then. So I did and I fixed it. I'm still trying to figure out why someone from Ontario would name himself after a labour activist who did his thing in the Kootenay's of BC, Eastern Washington and Montana. :-) I do know that when I point a finger at someone else there are three, at least, pointing back to me. Still, you have a point. Once upon a time it was Mac users who were accused of being Elistist (caps intentional) and a number of them still do earn that title. It is offputting. Take care, have fun, and welcome to our group and our OS. I hope it lives up to everything you want from it. ttfn John
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