I agree with you - at least in part. I believe that Linux should have legacy
hardware support, but only if those like us are not disadvantaged. As I've
said before, Linux is all about choice. If someone wants to plug in a
one-button i-mac USB mouse and use that, then they should be able to, no
matter how stupid we think they are (and they would have to be). If, on the
other hand, I wish to connect a ten-button beast that has buttons to make a
cup of earl grey and to wash the dishes I should be able to as well. If in
the future I wish to change the function of one of these buttons to paint the
house, I should be able to. These are just examples. For Linux to be popular
and beat M$, it should be inclusive, the OS for everyone. But only as long as
it doesn't stop more advanced users such as ourselves from doing what we
want. If we start dictating what is good and what is bad, we risk becoming
another M$.
On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:14, David Raleigh Arnold wrote:
> Bad habits because of how destructive they are. I think I explained why
> the mouse support is horrible in linux. The reason it is horrible in
> windows was that BG wanted to keep the 3-button mouse off the market so
> he could be the one to profit from an additional feature rather than
> Logitech, etc.. He sold millions of suckers the "Microsoft Mouse", which
> had no improved functionality whatever except to tell the os "I am a MS
> Mouse." Catering to victimized people with a 2 button mouse has retarded
> functionality. A mouse costs $3. Throw away all 2-button mice. It's
> history. That's what happened. Not my fault. You are a great guy, and
> you have been very helpful to a lot of people on this list. If I could
> only get off of it.... :-)
>
> Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote:
> > In the open source world (less so in the commercial world), features are
> > implemented in the way that developers like, or in the way that users
> > pressure developers to do. As I said earlier, a GUI can be a very
> > personal thing. Your idea of a "bad habit" probably isn't bad to the rest
> > (or the majority) of us. If you feel so strongly about it, then why don't
> > you let the developers know, or even get into developing these features
> > yourself?
> >
> > You seem to prefer a world where everyone agrees with you, and so they
> > implement everything just as you want without your interaction. This
> > simply is not possible.
> >
> > On Sat, 16 Dec 2000 13:20, David Raleigh Arnold wrote:
> > > Doing half of these things is not good enough. I'm talking stuff that
> > > could and should have been done five years ago. To do half of those
> > > things, a 2 button mouse would do. That is the point. There are hardly
> > > any relevant settings except switch right and left. No settings for
> > > combinations of mb's except to help use a goddam 2 button mouse.
> > > Windows users have bad habits, and that has resulted in serious harm to
> > > linux software. I am not insulted, merely frustrated by your very
> > > negative attitude. :-)
> > >
> > > Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote:
> > > > Have you even *looked* at alternatives that *can* do these things?
> > > > Before you start bitching, I can say that I'm sure that Sawfish can
> > > > do at least half of these things, and its configurability is getting
> > > > better all the time. Try looking at the settings instead of just
> > > > complaining when all of what you want isn't there by default and
> > > > served to you on a silver platter.
> > > >
> > > > My apologies if I sound rude, but there are many other window
> > > > managers out there apart from Enlightenment. Sawfish, in fact, is the
> > > > GNOME default, and can do (IMHO) everything that Enlightenment can do
> > > > and more.
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 15 Dec 2000 22:23, David Raleigh Arnold wrote:
> > > > > One more time:
> > > > > I want to be able to select a rectangle full of files and drag the
> > > > > lot to another directory using only the mouse. I want to be able to
> > > > > copy with the right mb, place with the left mb, and paste with the
> > > > > middle. I want to be able to call up a menu for gnome and
> > > > > Enlightenment complete by clicking buttons 1&2. I want to be able
> > > > > to start a program with a single click, and drag with the right
> > > > > mouse button instead of the left, which was a better way, because
> > > > > it made group select work. I want to call up the running items in a
> > > > > desktop by clicking 2&3. I want to delete by clicking 1&3. I want
> > > > > to be able to scroll faster or slower by using combinations of
> > > > > mb's. I want 1&2&3 to do something. KDE won't do it because W$
> > > > > won't do it, and they intend to be able to port stuff to W$. Gnome
> > > > > won't do it because they listen mainly to W$ users, and W$ users
> > > > > *have* *bad* *habits*.
> > > > > I don't want to restrict anything. You do.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dennis Myers wrote:
> > > > > > On Thursday 14 December 2000 05:09 pm, you wrote:
> > > > > > > I guess everybody's entitled to their opinion, but to put down
> > > > > > > the hard work of the KDE developers (never used Gnome but I bet
> > > > > > > they've put lots of blood, sweat and tears into it as well) is
> > > > > > > something that I for one bristle at.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The configurability of the KDE interface is clearly deeper than
> > > > > > > you have cared to go; I am certain that one of the developers
> > > > > > > could enlighten you as to how to adjust your interface to your
> > > > > > > preference(way better than me)
> > > > > > > _if_they_weren't_so_busy_working_on_making_all_our_lives_better
> > > > > > >.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > David Raleigh Arnold wrote:
> > > > > > > > I guess I failed to make my point. There should be no double
> > > > > > > > clicking at all. There should be group select and drag. There
> > > > > > > > should be no nono nonono alt or ctl + mousebutton clicks
> > > > > > > > ever. Only one mouse button, never two, should bring up a
> > > > > > > > menu. We don't have this because the people at kde and gnome
> > > > > > > > keep trying to be like windows instead of better.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -michael- wrote:
> > > > > > > > > I have a Logitec laser mouse with 2 buttons and a scroller.
> > > > > > > > > I am thrilled with mandrake's support of it in the kde
> > > > > > > > > environ. windows requires other drivers and so it's just
> > > > > > > > > another proof of linux' superiority imho.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > David Raleigh Arnold wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Ian Land wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Well, that's only true if you use a window manager like
> > > > > > > > > > > KDE. Others, like Gnome, use double-clicks. So, a
> > > > > > > > > > > single-click is not "the Linux way". The Windows gui
> > > > > > > > > > > can be configured to act like Internet Explorer, which
> > > > > > > > > > > also means single-clicks. This isn't an OS question,
> > > > > > > > > > > it's a gui question.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > One of the "bad habits" is having to double-click
> > > > > > > > > > > > when a single click will do. For those of us
> > > > > > > > > > > > who use both OS's it's quite distracting, and I
> > > > > > > > > > > > think the Linux way makes more sense.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > "They said I was mad; and I said they were mad;
> > > > > > > > > > > damn them, they outvoted me"
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > - Nathaniel Lee
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Windows mouse support stinks, and it is terminally stupid
> > > > > > > > > > to continue to support the two button mouse. Both KDE and
> > > > > > > > > > Gnome are guilty of this, but KDE is worse because of a
> > > > > > > > > > desire to use the qt library for both windows and linux.
> > > > > > > > > > For the Gnome developers there is no excuse for their
> > > > > > > > > > failure to use all seven mouse buttons. Double clicks
> > > > > > > > > > should be long gone by now. :-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "You can please some of the people some of the time, and you can
> > > > > > please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please
> > > > > > all of the people all of the time." Somebody famous said that, I
> > > > > > forget who. --
> > > > > > Dennis Myers registered Linux User #180842
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Sridhar Dhanapalan.
> > > > Your mouse has moved. Windows must be rebooted to acknowledge
> > > > this change.
> >
> > --
> > Sridhar Dhanapalan.
> > Your mouse has moved. Windows must be rebooted to acknowledge
> > this change.
--
Sridhar Dhanapalan.
Your mouse has moved. Windows must be rebooted to acknowledge this change.
