No, I appreciate the information, don't stop that. I need &  
appreciate the info Dennis..

On Mar 9, 2009, at 2:17 AM, Dennis Hammerl wrote:

> I guess I talk some other language. sorry.
> I'll try to be VERY specific in some future post. Like arrows and  
> drawings, detailed pictures and NO MORE information. I don't need a  
> computer to talk to myself.
> '
>
> --- On Sat, 3/7/09, Graham Rogers <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: Graham Rogers <[email protected]>
> Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Nighthawk S starting problem
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Saturday, March 7, 2009, 10:16 PM
>
> I did buy the 650.  I've never seen pipes like it they are mint and  
> I put them on a 650 with rusted pipes.  A friend wants the engine  
> and I get a lot of good spare parts.  The generator/alternator,  
> whatever the CB650SC has, is shot on it. The rest is good.
>
> Okay so my CB750 problem is not lack of fuel supply through the  
> petcock because choking 'solves' the problem. What do you mean by  
> 'slow speed circuit'? - the idle jets?
>
> On Mar 7, 2009, at 10:01 PM, Dennis Hammerl wrote:
>
>> GRAB THAT 650 ! The pipes alone will return much more than $200.
>> If your "valve" couldn't supply enough fuel, no amount of choke  
>> would make up for it. duh
>> The choke gets it's supply from the same bowl...
>> Now, a further lesson. A motorcycle carb has many stages and they  
>> are ADDED as RPM increases. Without the fuel from the blocked slow  
>> speed circuit, all stages are too lean. If it "went to bed" above  
>> 5k, the problem would be at the high speed circuit. Bear in mind  
>> that bikes of that period (late 70's~early 80's) were just flat  
>> too lean to start with (blame the EPA compliance / CARB standard)  
>> any congestion becomes critical. An increase to #37 of the slow  
>> jet makes them run a good bit better. Now, contrary to popular  
>> belief, "if some's good, more's better" does not apply. A #40 slow  
>> jet makes for poor running. Jet numbering is a percentage of 100.  
>> A #35 supplies 35% as much as a #100.
>>
>> --- On Sat, 3/7/09, Graham Rogers <[email protected]> wrote:
>> From: Graham Rogers <[email protected]>
>> Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Nighthawk S starting problem
>> To: [email protected]
>> Date: Saturday, March 7, 2009, 2:08 AM
>>
>> Thanks Dennis, I ran my own 'petcock' system (a plumbing shut off  
>> valve) from the tank when I couldn't find a good stock petcock for  
>> a CB750F so I'll start there.  The breaking up happens at any  
>> speed when the choke is not on.  I'll get back to my CB700 when  
>> I've got this one ready to sell.  By the way I came across a 1983  
>> CB650SC last week real cheap ($200) to use as parts for another  
>> one I have.  This parts bike has pipes in mint condition and I'm  
>> hoping anything else I'll need for my CB700 (the N/gear indicator  
>> problem) I can get from the CB650.
>>
>> On Mar 7, 2009, at 12:34 AM, Dennis Hammerl wrote:
>>
>>> So, we switch bikes ? OK, this one sounds like clogged slow speed  
>>> circuits. "Breaking up" (is hard to do ?) is a lean condition.  
>>> Rich mixtures are just sluggish, lean ones crackle and pop.  
>>> Again, check jet sizes. 1980 CB750F should be; primary 68,  
>>> secondary 102, slow 35.
>>> Now for all the tuners; you can over jet so much that the result  
>>> is just like being too lean. The air velocity is too slow at low  
>>> engine speeds that it doesn't carry that much fuel in.
>>> snap-crackle-pop. and then.... WHOOSH as it hits an engine speed  
>>> that can make it all work. When it all works like it should,  
>>> things are sooo boring. They start and run, pull from low engine  
>>> speeds and go pretty good. If rejetting is ever indicated  
>>> following an exhaust change, start with a base-line of stock  
>>> jetting and correct as necessary. Inspite of "enclosed  
>>> instructions" most after market exhaust systems require only  
>>> slight changes to jetting if any at all.
>>>
>>> --- On Fri, 3/6/09, Graham Rogers <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> From: Graham Rogers <[email protected]>
>>> Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Nighthawk S starting problem
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Date: Friday, March 6, 2009, 7:59 AM
>>>
>>> This bike CB700) is on hold for a little bit.  I'm having to make  
>>> the difficult decision to sell one of my Hondas. So I'm going to  
>>> sell my 1980 CB750F.  But first I have a problem. I restored this  
>>> bike as much as I can (paint job, new decals, new seat cover and  
>>> detailed clean, including carbs).  The bike runs good as long as  
>>> I keep the choke on some. The bike breaks up and dies if I do not  
>>> use the choke.  Here's what I suspect may be the problem and this  
>>> is where I need help.  I could not find a vacuum leak by spraying  
>>> around the carbs while it was running.  The bike has a 4 into 1  
>>> exhaust system. That's how I got it.  Should the carbs have been  
>>> modified/adjusted for the change from the original exhaust system  
>>> and had they not,  would that cause it to run lean and so need  
>>> the choke activated?  If that's the case what do I need to do?  
>>> Installing stock exhausts/mufflers is too expensive.  Thanks  
>>> guys, Graham
>>>
>>> On Feb 26, 2009, at 12:38 AM, Dennis Hammerl wrote:
>>>
>>>> They are your carbs. Investigate what passages are blocked. It  
>>>> would seem that you have sufficient intake vacuum, Hand choking  
>>>> increases that. If all was well, after hand choking, the plugs  
>>>> would be saturated. Because they aren't, the path from bowl to  
>>>> intake via choke valves must be blocked or the choke valves  
>>>> don't work properly. They can be removed without too much  
>>>> trouble. Very simple devices.
>>>>
>>>> --- On Wed, 2/25/09, Graham Rogers <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> From: Graham Rogers <[email protected]>
>>>> Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Nighthawk S starting problem
>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>> Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 5:46 PM
>>>>
>>>> I cranked  the motor over - it tried to start, at least on one  
>>>> or two cyl. Then I checked the plugs.  They were dry on the tips  
>>>> and porcelain but a little wet on the rim of the plug.  It  
>>>> didn't smell like gas however.  I then tried to start the bike  
>>>> with my hand restricting the air flow at the air filter.  It did  
>>>> start but died when I moved my 'hand choke' I probably could  
>>>> have gotten it started that way.  So, it looks like the choke  
>>>> isn't working eh?  Now what?
>>>> Graham
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 25, 2009, at 12:21 AM, Dennis Hammerl wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Spraying it optimizes the conditions needed for starting.  
>>>>> Which... means the chokes aren't working. If it has a strong  
>>>>> vacuum when cranking if you hold your hand over any carb  
>>>>> throat, the chokes aren't passing any fuel. WHY ? The "gas  
>>>>> chokes" are very simple valve devices. If they have access to  
>>>>> fuel from the float chamber and they are open to the bores when  
>>>>> activated, all should work. With the throttle plates closed,  
>>>>> the high vacuum (or , more properly, low pressure) should draw  
>>>>> fuel up through the choke circuits and into the motor. It's as  
>>>>> simple as a faucet. I don't want to get into any abstract at  
>>>>> this point. Are the plugs getting wet when you crank the motor  
>>>>> with the chioke operated ? Knowing that is a must before  
>>>>> proceding. If they are, we look elsewhere. If not, we stay in  
>>>>> the carbs.
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Graham Rogers <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> From: Graham Rogers <[email protected]>
>>>>> Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Nighthawk S starting problem
>>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>>> Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009, 8:05 AM
>>>>>
>>>>> Tried starting the bike this morning and there doesn't seem to  
>>>>> be any improvement.  It would 'bubble' along like it was trying  
>>>>> to catch (it acted like a weak spark) but again it took  
>>>>> starting fluid and the choke seemed not to play apart.  Once it  
>>>>> had 'caught', restricting the air flow through the air filter  
>>>>> with my hand significantly increased the rpms.  Maybe I should  
>>>>> also check the state of the battery huh?
>>>>> Incidently I noticed the fuel gauge didn't work until I revved  
>>>>> the engine significantly and held the revs. That was a new one  
>>>>> to me,  Graham
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 23, 2009, at 11:02 PM, Dennis Hammerl wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Let us know how that works out. The neutral wiring is grounded  
>>>>>> and that's why it always shows N / green light. Let's get into  
>>>>>> that later. You have multiple issues. One at a time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- On Mon, 2/23/09, kiwi <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> From: kiwi <[email protected]>
>>>>>> Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: Nighthawk S starting problem
>>>>>> To: "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!"  
>>>>>> <[email protected]>
>>>>>> Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 1:16 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Blasted those tiny holes that allow the gas through when using  
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> choke with
>>>>>>  compressed air and
>>>>>>  spent 2 hours reinstalling the carbs. It
>>>>>> still took starting fluid to get the bike started BUT, not  
>>>>>> very much
>>>>>> and the choke worked a little.  I'll see how it starts
>>>>>>  tomorrow when
>>>>>> it is back to winter temperature.
>>>>>> Second problem with this NH is the neutral/gear indicator.  It  
>>>>>> reads N
>>>>>> all the time and won't show what gear the bike is in. I
>>>>>>  found a little
>>>>>> black box under the tail section that I think is part of the N/ 
>>>>>> gear
>>>>>> indicator system.  Is there a way to check it?
>>>>>> Third problem should be
>>>>>>  simple.  The left front turn signal is
>>>>>> 'bright' when ignition is on but will not blink when  it  
>>>>>> should.  The
>>>>>> others work as they should.  That left one shines a lot brighter
>>>>>>  than
>>>>>> the right front when ignition is on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 22, 11:11 pm, Dennis Hammerl <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> > I will assume your carb clean was a complete operation.  
>>>>>> Let's examine
>>>>>> how the choke works. The cable
>>>>>>  opens valves that will
>>>>>>  permit raw fuel to be
>>>>>> sucked into the motor during cranking. Now, lets say that  
>>>>>> works fine.Your plugs
>>>>>> should be wet after cranking for a short while. Y-N ? The most  
>>>>>> common
>>>>>>  cause of
>>>>>> the plugs being dry after cranking is the throttle plates  
>>>>>> being open too far and
>>>>>> causing insufficient vacuum. Same as opening the throttle  
>>>>>> while trying
>>>>>>  to start.
>>>>>> When the intake air flow is too low, no fuel will be drawn in  
>>>>>> from the choke
>>>>>> circuit. If the plugs are wet, you're flooding the motor.
>>>>>> > We start
>>>>>>  here. Additional checks of compression and a leak-down may be in
>>>>>> order.
>>>>>> > This may take time to resolve. Get at it.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > --- On Sun, 2/22/09,
>>>>>>  Graham Rogers <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> > From: Graham Rogers <[email protected]>
>>>>>> > Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Nighthawk S starting problem
>>>>>> > To: [email protected]
>>>>>> > Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009, 6:18 PM
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I have a 1986 Nighthawk S.  It ran before I got it but  
>>>>>> always took
>>>>>> > starter fluid in the air filter to get it going.  I pulled  
>>>>>> the carbs
>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>  thoroughly cleaned them and used to compressed air in all the
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>  holes.  However the bike still will not start without stater  
>>>>>> fluid
>>>>>> > and even then it takes along time with the fluid.  I noticed  
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>  using the choke seemed to make no difference at all so,  
>>>>>> thinking that
>>>>>> > perhaps the choke isn't working at all I removed the carbs  
>>>>>> again
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>  (they are terrible to remove) and did what I could toi ensure  
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> > choke was working right.  The mechanism moves as it should  
>>>>>> and I used
>>>>>> > compressed air in the holes to the where
>>>>>>  I
>>>>>>  presume the choke opens.
>>>>>> > Now, before I reinstall the carbs, any suggestions?  Could the
>>>>>> > problem have been the choke or is there something else that  
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> > cause the same problem.  By the way, once the bike was  
>>>>>> warmed up, it
>>>>>> > ran fine - just when it's cold I have to use
>>>>>>  starting fluid,  Graham
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> >


--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected]
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

Reply via email to