Please keep in mind that I am being argumentative here and not quarrelsome: it doesn't matter where the bolts come from, if they're small they will break off. I have found no fault with Japanese fasteners. I have, however, with Chinese. When I have a bolt or nut that has been thightened way beyond what factory specs call for, I usually blame some dragline mechanic from the oilpatch. Ya gotta be from here - dragline mechanics are used to fastening nuts and bolts with sockets from a minimum of 1¾" on up, mostly over 2½";and they really put a bind on them with a cheater pipe about three feet long as well. No finesse when it comes to "delicate" machinery. Meaning, of course, bolts that are smaller in diameter than an inch (about 24mm), let alone 6mm. Fastening small diameter bolts does require paying attention to torque specifications, but then, so does fastening the head bolts, and in proper sequence as well, especially on smaller engines with high output, like Honda's inline fours. To do so makes for many miles of trouble-free riding. I am not bragging here, but my Beetle engines lasted because I learned not only the factory training, but those of Gene Berg, whose engines lasted longer and performed better than VW factory engines. They even used him as a consultant at one time because of his reputation; and probably because so many people were getting their service done with him instead of the dealer. Reduction in revenue speaks louder than complaints, maybe? Were I you, I would go over the torque of the head again after a hundred miles or so of riding even if there is no requirement of it in the service manual... I did with my Beetle engines, especially if they were in vans. I did that for two reasons: one, to see if there might be a stud that stripped, and two, to be certain that none worked loose otherwise; you see, the initial torque on Beetle heads was either 24 ft-lb or 27, depending on the type of stud and which block. Seem low? It is; but when the engine heats up, that becomes about 68 ft-lb. Honda's may be higher initially, but then Honda uses aluminum in the block, whereas the Beetle block was a magnesium alloy: softer material. Use too much initial torque and when the barrells heat up studs will pull. Of course the same could happen in aluminum, so it is crucial to torque carefully and according to instructions. I wish you well and may you be putting the rubber to the road successfully and for a long time when you finish... Stanley
________________________________ From: Creative Residential Designs <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:09:13 AM Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: 83 cb650sc cam chain tensioner parts - difficulty finding Thanks for the info Dennis. I'll be putting my "new" top end on next week. I bought it minus the chain so I needed to know this. I agree on using a torque wrench too. I've made that mistake, I.E. breaking a bolt and it SUCKS. I love my bike but these Japanese bolts just aren't as strong as good ol' American steel. Paul...don't fret too much, just pay close attention, do what Dennis says and get 'er done! If you have any doubts take photos as you go. If you want to see what I've done on my Nighthawks or Harley go to the Photobucket site and type in "HotrodMamma". I'm going to cut some gaskets for my Nighthawk soon and will post a how-to. The cam cover gaskets are hard to get and expensive. I can make one for $4.00 plus my time. I'm going to keep a pattern for later too. HotrodMamma. ----- Original Message ----- >From: Dennis Hammerl >To: [email protected] >Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:09 PM >Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: 83 cb650sc cam chain tensioner parts - >difficulty finding > > >Get a grip. Not all parts are updated at the same time. Without my asking a >counter person to check, I recall that there is only one update spring and a >couple of updates to the tensioner assy. You do or do not have the OEM manual >? Not Clymers book of the dead or some such. Please take the time to read the >common service manual. All specific manuals are based on the viewer having >done this. Cam sprockets are marked with lines that are to be in line with the >head surface. Study the manual before disassembly and take pix if needed. Do >not play switch with any parts. Replace each part (tappet adjusters, cam >followers, cam journal caps, etc) in the EXACT place it came from. Lay parts >out in an orderly fashion in a place that will not be disturbed by kids or >pets. Do not introduce any new variables by a careless assembly. A light dab >of grease on the cam lobes willl do,a drop or two of oil on each journal. Fill >anti-foam chambers with oil. Before replacing the head cover, remove the plugs (should be out already) and spin the engine over with the starter. Repeat in short bursts untill oil is seen flowing. >You want tips ? Here's one. Some tech's have called me over because the cam >chain isn't long enough... duh. It did fit. What happens is that it "drops" a >link under the crankshaft. You will need to rotate the crank a bit while >holding the chain up and it will straighten out. >The possibility exists that you are a he-man. Use a torque wrench on ALL >fasteners. It's way too easy to strip the 6mm bolts that used throughout. >Start each one with fingers to make sure you don't strip any. Specs are in the >front section on the manual. >Service bulletins from that time are all on paper. Where ours got to after all >these years may be a chore to locate. Rob may have taken them when he left. >Just stop fretting about all this and be glad you can get parts. The original >(questionable) parts have disappeared. ONLY updated parts are available. Honda >bought back those many years ago. >I lied. I've only got 37 years with Honda. 42 total. First with Suzuki and >Yamaha. > >Wanna' "degree in" the cams ? Makes 'em fly. Advanced procedure, but big >performance boost. > >--- On Thu, 8/27/09, oldschoolgwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>From: oldschoolgwin <[email protected]> >>Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] Re: 83 cb650sc cam chain tensioner parts - >>difficulty finding >>To: "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" <[email protected]> >>Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 11:39 PM >> >> >> >>Thanks Dennis. >> >>Do you suspect the -010 tensioner bracket had the modifications that >>"improved" the tensioner from the original? >> >>Do you now of a technical service bulletin addressing the repair of >>the failure. I think this may be valuable to those of us with less >>historical experience with the NH tensioner (42 years at Honda - wow >>that's more knowledge than i can imagine). I tried to find a TSB on >>the web but no luck. >> >>Well i found a NOS spring (14514-ME5-010) at a Honda shop in Ohio - it >>should be here in a few days - at that time i'll remove the tensioner >>and measure spring force between the two springs (maybe that will >>prove hopefull if there is a large difference). >> >>It doesn't sound too difficult when reading the OEM manual but a bet >>they leave a lot of the little tricks out. I guess just think >>everything well through before you do it. I think I'll take a picture >>of the cam sprocket allignment marks (with #1 at TDC compression) >>before the removal to ensure it is reset the same after intall (that >>part makes me a bit nervous!). The OEM manual was a bit unclear of >>what cam mark alligns with what part of the head surface. And I won't >>swap positions on any components. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Paul >> >>Aug 26, 2:51 pm, Dennis Hammerl <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Part sequence is .000 original, 010 first mod, 020 second mod. >>> >>> --- On Wed, 8/26/09, oldschoolgwin <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> From: oldschoolgwin <[email protected]> >>> Subject: [Nighthawk Lovers] 83 cb650sc cam chain tensioner parts - >>> difficulty finding >>> To: "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" <[email protected]> >>> Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 3:18 PM >>> >>> Does anyone know where i can get the spring and tensioner bracket >>> from, most places show them on the part finder but they are not in >>> stocka and no longer made (at least by Honda). >>> >>> Spring: 14514-me5-010 >>> Bracket Tensioner: 14500-ME5-030 >>> >>> I found a NOS bracket tensioner on Ebay but it is a -010. So it went -. >>> 01, -020, and the last is -030. I don't know if the -010 part is the >>> original with the problems that required the upgrade to the next part >>> revision >>> >>> At minimum I need the tensioner spring or there isn't much reason to >>> take the bike apart. Yikes - no way to solve the chain rattle? >>> >>> Thanks for the help. >>> >>> Paul >> >>>> >> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
