And almost all of us carry a phone that rivaled or exceeds all but the local I/O capabilities of the first mainframe I worked on!
Life is a wonderful ride. Just wish I could see what the next 70 years would bring! On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 3:20 PM Curt Lundgren <[email protected]> wrote: > In 1976 my first computer was the Netronics Elf II, with the RCA 'COSMAC' > 1802 processor. It ran from a cheap 3.58 MHz TV color crystal and > typically took 16 clock cycles to execute a two-byte instruction. Long > jump instructions that could address the full 64k address space were three > bytes. So figure perhaps 117,000 instructions/second. It had 256 bytes of > RAM and a Pixie chip for video output. Input was a hex keypad with a > load/run switch. You could actually write a program that generated > graphics that fit in the supplied memory. > > It was later upgraded to 7K of RAM, the 8th kilobyte never did work > right. I used it to expand the memory of our Datavision D3000 character > generator at the TV station so we could display and update election > results. The graphic artist later gratefully told me it saved him two > weeks of work, preparing for the election. > > Another wire-wrapped custom version of the 1802 computer served as our > machine control system at the TV station for several years. A single 4,800 > baud serial cable ran to local interfaces on VTRs, film projectors, slide > projectors and the Ampex ACR-25B spot player. Software was done in > assembly, with source and destination cassette players. > > My first PC was probably assembled by Michael Dell, at PC Designs - it was > a 10 MHz 286 with an incredible one megabyte of RAM. Then the 30 MB CDC > Wren drive was added and I was cooking with gas. > > Now I'm enjoying an 8 GB Pi 4 with its 500 GB external boot drive, both > cheaper and vastly faster than those computers of earlier days. > > On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 1:42 PM Jack Coats <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Yea, to me anymore small 'control' computers are good fun. And big >> business for IoT and control systems. >> I wanted to do control systems (CompSci major and ME minor in college) >> but got sucked into doing busness >> apps then systems on mainframes. I started to get my own minicomputer >> back in the day when the Altair 8800 >> came out (8 bit Intel 8080 processor, 256bytes static ram, front panel >> switches to start with, in a kit from MITS) >> but I eventually maxed it out before moving to a 'big' z-80. Used full >> size floppies, 64K ram (another kit from >> Processor Technology, also their 3P+S interface board kit), a TV >> Typeriter 2 (kit from Southwest Technology in San Antonio), >> Heathkit Printer, even a DCHayes modem (300 baud!), but it all worked. A >> friend and I put in a 2K EPROM >> board to put a bios in (Intel Intelec compatible) so we could run CP/M on >> it. Eventually had a AI Cybernetics speach >> synthesizer board, and a Cercia Circuit Cellar camera. Eventually more >> computers using the >> serial cable based $25Network (that did surprisingly well with little >> overhead). >> >> Yea, memories. Now I have a pi or 3 around, some gathering dust, some >> being useful and more toys >> than I have time to deal with. >> >> So goes life. Thanks for bringing back some memories. >> >> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 1:12 PM 'Michael Chaney' via NLUG < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> My younger son is at Alabama working on an EE degree (you may remember >>> him as a baby 20 years ago when the wife and kids showed up to a meeting). >>> Last semester he had a class on microcontrollers, and they specifically >>> used PIC series microcontrollers. He (and I) bought this evaluation >>> package that comes with four different microcontrollers: >>> >>> >>> https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/microchip-technology/DM330013-2/2802029?s=N4IgTCBcDaILYEsDGAnA9gZwC7INYAIEEQBdAXyA >>> >>> They're interesting because the package contains the CPU along with some >>> amount of RAM and a little bit of flash. All of the external pins on the >>> package are IO pins, except for the required power and clock pins. The IO >>> pins are remappable and come in a couple of flavors - some can do analog >>> and pretty much all can be digital. They have a couple of built in UARTs. >>> The whole thing is amazing. >>> >>> For the 16-bit versions the RAM tends to be a few K, program size is >>> 32-128K or so. It's a Harvard architecture where the program space and >>> data space are separated, so the program reads from flash. With that much >>> memory loading in libraries is iffy at best. I tend to write simple code >>> to handle cases that a library function would normally handle. It's the >>> opposite of modern programming where we go find a "module" or whatever to >>> handle every little task. >>> >>> Their programs are simple. The big one at the end was a clock with a >>> few buttons for setting the time and alarm. >>> >>> I've done hardware interfacing like this on an R-Pi, but there's >>> something just very different when doing it on a simple 16-bit RISCy cpu >>> with limited everything. I had to go all out because they were still doing >>> some remote learning and the kids weren't really getting it. >>> >>> I also have an arduino which is awesome, but someone has written code >>> for pretty much everything already and I'm not convinced that's the way for >>> kids to learn. It's a great way to get them involved, but the stuff I've >>> seen is the equivalent of putting together legos. If you learn it's a >>> side-effect. Of course, you can still write all your own code and all that >>> - just have to convince kids to do that if they want to learn. >>> >>> Anyway, it was interesting getting back to the basics. And kind of >>> cathartic to actually care about data and program space usage. >>> >>> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 8:52 AM Jack Coats <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Welcome to 'data creep'. There was the day that we counted bytes of >>>> code in a program or data, now we just think in megabytes. >>>> >>>> IMHO, as we have more capability, we use it, sometimes squander it. >>>> >>>> One of my history examples, I came up with a cost analysis of having >>>> datacenters and terminals being cheaper than the gen1 (or 2) PCs on >>>> everyone's desk at the major company where I was working. My boss told me >>>> to trash the study because we were going to use desktops no matter what the >>>> facts were. ... Such is life. >>>> >>>> Since then the costs have changed and individual computers are now >>>> cheaper. Mainframes still have their place in real production (huge >>>> amounts of I/O or certain problems in engineering that can't be easily >>>> functionally decomposed for multiple small processors, etc, but their value >>>> for the more common efforts are dwindling as smaller/distributed machines >>>> make more sense on a case by case basis. >>>> >>>> Just my thoughts. ... I'm retired, so my opinion doesn't matter much to >>>> anyone but me. <<grin>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 7:42 PM Andrew Farnsworth <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Does anyone else remember when the trial size storage offered by >>>>> companies like google, backblaze, etc was actually useful? Today it is >>>>> still around the same 10 Gb size, but that is much less useful today than >>>>> it was 20 years ago :-). Back then, it was HUGE. Today it is so small >>>>> I'm >>>>> not even willing to give it a trial as my personal NAS has 3 orders of >>>>> magnitude more storage. 10 Gb would let me store one small VM virtual >>>>> drive. >>>>> >>>>> More as it happens... >>>>> >>>>> Andy F >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "NLUG" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "NLUG" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAB%2B-c-q4SL9k7mqs4AWPQ5dyVYO1vWzAYotvv19Nuzci5DfHTQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAB%2B-c-q4SL9k7mqs4AWPQ5dyVYO1vWzAYotvv19Nuzci5DfHTQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ><> ... Jack >>>> >>>> If you are not paying for something, you are not a consumer, you are >>>> the product. - Chamath Palihapitiya >>>> >>>> "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I >>>> learn." - Ben Franklin >>>> >>>> -- >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "NLUG" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected] >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en >>>> >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "NLUG" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAFq0N1z%3D-eriAGT29LSZW3xaAaU2aCicSKxwtkMSPWLTO0WGVw%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAFq0N1z%3D-eriAGT29LSZW3xaAaU2aCicSKxwtkMSPWLTO0WGVw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Michael Darrin Chaney, Sr. >>> [email protected] >>> http://www.michaelchaney.com/ >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "NLUG" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected] >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "NLUG" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAAtfUtEON95u6oA833Aqz_dgssPtgXcXXxE6-yANLuTT%2BcwHAQ%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAAtfUtEON95u6oA833Aqz_dgssPtgXcXXxE6-yANLuTT%2BcwHAQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> >> >> -- >> ><> ... Jack >> >> If you are not paying for something, you are not a consumer, you are the >> product. - Chamath Palihapitiya >> >> "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." >> - Ben Franklin >> >> -- >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "NLUG" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected] >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "NLUG" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAFq0N1w%3Dpr-g%2B%3DJnZ2HT04S1-nb4VjS0VQw-vLYZNZWoe6xeYA%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAFq0N1w%3Dpr-g%2B%3DJnZ2HT04S1-nb4VjS0VQw-vLYZNZWoe6xeYA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "NLUG" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "NLUG" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CADPPtrpA2CCQHOSc%2B7h16kqtTVYia1dhPh-wZfVVw5Mn8RNRNQ%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CADPPtrpA2CCQHOSc%2B7h16kqtTVYia1dhPh-wZfVVw5Mn8RNRNQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- ><> ... Jack If you are not paying for something, you are not a consumer, you are the product. - Chamath Palihapitiya "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." - Ben Franklin -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "NLUG" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "NLUG" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAFq0N1xX%2B_RNtMfmsJKLvU0sBzzNwN3%3D4JRBxwABgOyEL6v_Xw%40mail.gmail.com.
