Ah the nostalgia... Sinclair ZX-80 with 1k RAM and no long term storage... oh, wait... a Tape Interface where you ran a separate tape machine manually with the audio out -> audio in on both the computer and the tape machine. Note machine, not drive. In no way was that a drive.... :-). So much fun way back when.
RAM and disk space are so abundant today that even compiling Hello World causes you to end up with a "massive" executable (> 64Kb) that would not even load in the memory of any computer prior to the mid-80s. I can buy (read that as already have bought a baker's dozen) a 32-bit microcontroller with camera module for <=$10 that has more RAM and processing power, and storage, let alone the other capabilities like io etc than anything from the early days that a person could afford (i.e. <= price of a new car). I have fun working with these and hope to be able to interest my young children in them and their capabilities as they mature. Oh yeah... a bunch of you probably don't know that I have a 5yr old girl and a 3 yr old boy... Andy F On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 4:30 PM Jack Coats <[email protected]> wrote: > And almost all of us carry a phone that rivaled or exceeds all but the > local I/O capabilities of the first mainframe I worked on! > > Life is a wonderful ride. Just wish I could see what the next 70 years > would bring! > > On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 3:20 PM Curt Lundgren <[email protected]> wrote: > >> In 1976 my first computer was the Netronics Elf II, with the RCA 'COSMAC' >> 1802 processor. It ran from a cheap 3.58 MHz TV color crystal and >> typically took 16 clock cycles to execute a two-byte instruction. Long >> jump instructions that could address the full 64k address space were three >> bytes. So figure perhaps 117,000 instructions/second. It had 256 bytes of >> RAM and a Pixie chip for video output. Input was a hex keypad with a >> load/run switch. You could actually write a program that generated >> graphics that fit in the supplied memory. >> >> It was later upgraded to 7K of RAM, the 8th kilobyte never did work >> right. I used it to expand the memory of our Datavision D3000 character >> generator at the TV station so we could display and update election >> results. The graphic artist later gratefully told me it saved him two >> weeks of work, preparing for the election. >> >> Another wire-wrapped custom version of the 1802 computer served as our >> machine control system at the TV station for several years. A single 4,800 >> baud serial cable ran to local interfaces on VTRs, film projectors, slide >> projectors and the Ampex ACR-25B spot player. Software was done in >> assembly, with source and destination cassette players. >> >> My first PC was probably assembled by Michael Dell, at PC Designs - it >> was a 10 MHz 286 with an incredible one megabyte of RAM. Then the 30 MB >> CDC Wren drive was added and I was cooking with gas. >> >> Now I'm enjoying an 8 GB Pi 4 with its 500 GB external boot drive, both >> cheaper and vastly faster than those computers of earlier days. >> >> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 1:42 PM Jack Coats <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Yea, to me anymore small 'control' computers are good fun. And big >>> business for IoT and control systems. >>> I wanted to do control systems (CompSci major and ME minor in college) >>> but got sucked into doing busness >>> apps then systems on mainframes. I started to get my own minicomputer >>> back in the day when the Altair 8800 >>> came out (8 bit Intel 8080 processor, 256bytes static ram, front panel >>> switches to start with, in a kit from MITS) >>> but I eventually maxed it out before moving to a 'big' z-80. Used full >>> size floppies, 64K ram (another kit from >>> Processor Technology, also their 3P+S interface board kit), a TV >>> Typeriter 2 (kit from Southwest Technology in San Antonio), >>> Heathkit Printer, even a DCHayes modem (300 baud!), but it all worked. >>> A friend and I put in a 2K EPROM >>> board to put a bios in (Intel Intelec compatible) so we could run CP/M >>> on it. Eventually had a AI Cybernetics speach >>> synthesizer board, and a Cercia Circuit Cellar camera. Eventually more >>> computers using the >>> serial cable based $25Network (that did surprisingly well with little >>> overhead). >>> >>> Yea, memories. Now I have a pi or 3 around, some gathering dust, some >>> being useful and more toys >>> than I have time to deal with. >>> >>> So goes life. Thanks for bringing back some memories. >>> >>> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 1:12 PM 'Michael Chaney' via NLUG < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> My younger son is at Alabama working on an EE degree (you may remember >>>> him as a baby 20 years ago when the wife and kids showed up to a meeting). >>>> Last semester he had a class on microcontrollers, and they specifically >>>> used PIC series microcontrollers. He (and I) bought this evaluation >>>> package that comes with four different microcontrollers: >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/microchip-technology/DM330013-2/2802029?s=N4IgTCBcDaILYEsDGAnA9gZwC7INYAIEEQBdAXyA >>>> >>>> They're interesting because the package contains the CPU along with >>>> some amount of RAM and a little bit of flash. All of the external pins on >>>> the package are IO pins, except for the required power and clock pins. The >>>> IO pins are remappable and come in a couple of flavors - some can do analog >>>> and pretty much all can be digital. They have a couple of built in UARTs. >>>> The whole thing is amazing. >>>> >>>> For the 16-bit versions the RAM tends to be a few K, program size is >>>> 32-128K or so. It's a Harvard architecture where the program space and >>>> data space are separated, so the program reads from flash. With that much >>>> memory loading in libraries is iffy at best. I tend to write simple code >>>> to handle cases that a library function would normally handle. It's the >>>> opposite of modern programming where we go find a "module" or whatever to >>>> handle every little task. >>>> >>>> Their programs are simple. The big one at the end was a clock with a >>>> few buttons for setting the time and alarm. >>>> >>>> I've done hardware interfacing like this on an R-Pi, but there's >>>> something just very different when doing it on a simple 16-bit RISCy cpu >>>> with limited everything. I had to go all out because they were still doing >>>> some remote learning and the kids weren't really getting it. >>>> >>>> I also have an arduino which is awesome, but someone has written code >>>> for pretty much everything already and I'm not convinced that's the way for >>>> kids to learn. It's a great way to get them involved, but the stuff I've >>>> seen is the equivalent of putting together legos. If you learn it's a >>>> side-effect. Of course, you can still write all your own code and all that >>>> - just have to convince kids to do that if they want to learn. >>>> >>>> Anyway, it was interesting getting back to the basics. And kind of >>>> cathartic to actually care about data and program space usage. >>>> >>>> On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 8:52 AM Jack Coats <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Welcome to 'data creep'. There was the day that we counted bytes of >>>>> code in a program or data, now we just think in megabytes. >>>>> >>>>> IMHO, as we have more capability, we use it, sometimes squander it. >>>>> >>>>> One of my history examples, I came up with a cost analysis of having >>>>> datacenters and terminals being cheaper than the gen1 (or 2) PCs on >>>>> everyone's desk at the major company where I was working. My boss told me >>>>> to trash the study because we were going to use desktops no matter what >>>>> the >>>>> facts were. ... Such is life. >>>>> >>>>> Since then the costs have changed and individual computers are now >>>>> cheaper. Mainframes still have their place in real production (huge >>>>> amounts of I/O or certain problems in engineering that can't be easily >>>>> functionally decomposed for multiple small processors, etc, but their >>>>> value >>>>> for the more common efforts are dwindling as smaller/distributed machines >>>>> make more sense on a case by case basis. >>>>> >>>>> Just my thoughts. ... I'm retired, so my opinion doesn't matter much >>>>> to anyone but me. <<grin>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 7:42 PM Andrew Farnsworth <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Does anyone else remember when the trial size storage offered by >>>>>> companies like google, backblaze, etc was actually useful? Today it is >>>>>> still around the same 10 Gb size, but that is much less useful today than >>>>>> it was 20 years ago :-). Back then, it was HUGE. Today it is so small >>>>>> I'm >>>>>> not even willing to give it a trial as my personal NAS has 3 orders of >>>>>> magnitude more storage. 10 Gb would let me store one small VM virtual >>>>>> drive. >>>>>> >>>>>> More as it happens... >>>>>> >>>>>> Andy F >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "NLUG" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "NLUG" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAB%2B-c-q4SL9k7mqs4AWPQ5dyVYO1vWzAYotvv19Nuzci5DfHTQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAB%2B-c-q4SL9k7mqs4AWPQ5dyVYO1vWzAYotvv19Nuzci5DfHTQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ><> ... Jack >>>>> >>>>> If you are not paying for something, you are not a consumer, you are >>>>> the product. - Chamath Palihapitiya >>>>> >>>>> "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I >>>>> learn." - Ben Franklin >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "NLUG" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "NLUG" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAFq0N1z%3D-eriAGT29LSZW3xaAaU2aCicSKxwtkMSPWLTO0WGVw%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAFq0N1z%3D-eriAGT29LSZW3xaAaU2aCicSKxwtkMSPWLTO0WGVw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Michael Darrin Chaney, Sr. >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://www.michaelchaney.com/ >>>> >>>> -- >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "NLUG" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected] >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en >>>> >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "NLUG" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAAtfUtEON95u6oA833Aqz_dgssPtgXcXXxE6-yANLuTT%2BcwHAQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAAtfUtEON95u6oA833Aqz_dgssPtgXcXXxE6-yANLuTT%2BcwHAQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ><> ... Jack >>> >>> If you are not paying for something, you are not a consumer, you are the >>> product. - Chamath Palihapitiya >>> >>> "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." >>> - Ben Franklin >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "NLUG" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected] >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "NLUG" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAFq0N1w%3Dpr-g%2B%3DJnZ2HT04S1-nb4VjS0VQw-vLYZNZWoe6xeYA%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAFq0N1w%3Dpr-g%2B%3DJnZ2HT04S1-nb4VjS0VQw-vLYZNZWoe6xeYA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "NLUG" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected] >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "NLUG" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CADPPtrpA2CCQHOSc%2B7h16kqtTVYia1dhPh-wZfVVw5Mn8RNRNQ%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CADPPtrpA2CCQHOSc%2B7h16kqtTVYia1dhPh-wZfVVw5Mn8RNRNQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > > > -- > ><> ... Jack > > If you are not paying for something, you are not a consumer, you are the > product. - Chamath Palihapitiya > > "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." - > Ben Franklin > > -- > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "NLUG" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "NLUG" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAFq0N1xX%2B_RNtMfmsJKLvU0sBzzNwN3%3D4JRBxwABgOyEL6v_Xw%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAFq0N1xX%2B_RNtMfmsJKLvU0sBzzNwN3%3D4JRBxwABgOyEL6v_Xw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "NLUG" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "NLUG" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/nlug-talk/CAB%2B-c-qTjUsmoUu8ve45bVyRwo4Q66pJSz5qZzcK%2B8-zC%3D7SBg%40mail.gmail.com.
