On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 07:12:04AM -0700, Paul Tagliamonte wrote:
>    Hi guys, sorry about not being able to reply with a signed mail (etc), but
>    I can't get the hang of Google Groups :)
>    I'm a Debian Developer, a member of the debian-js team, but don't work on
>    too much Javascript stuff in Debian.

OK, so by the way, some of this goes without saying, but, alas, I wasn't
exactly clear.

>    I'd like to make one thing very (very) clear -- the tech-ctty rarely
>    rules. On anything. The tech-ctty is here to make a decision *iff* the
>    community of developers, maintainers and interested folks are deadlocked.
>    This argument has been going on for 2 years, and frankly, any decision is
>    welcome.

It's actually more like a year. I've forgotten exactly how long this's
gone on.

>    This is not some top-down edict. This has been putting the
>    debian-javascript folks in a really bad place for a really long time.
>    So, here's a rundown of exactly what's gone on here.
>    node (old 1990's software) uses /sbin/node (superuser binary, root only)
>    for some of it's tools. Node.js uses /usr/bin/node (as it should) to run.
>    The first solution that was used (which I was fine with) is that node.js
>    declared a conflicts with node (ham radio), so that you couldn't install
>    both at the same time. Debian policy �7.4 may be read in a way that
>    suggest this is not correct, and as a result, the discussion was taken to
>    debian-devel a *number* of times.
>    The finial solution, as you can see is to give the name "node" to neither
>    package, and allow the packages to conflict with eachother.
>    One can restore node to sanity by installing nodejs-legacy on any Debian

Please do note this is *not* an official stance. Also, the word sanity
wasn't the best choice. It'll add a symbolic link back to nodejs from
`node'.

>    system (with packages uploaded after this decision).
>    Let's be clear - there's one rational behind this -- the goal of the
>    Debian archive is to provide a *safe* way to install software. Code
>    undergoes a review when it's being introduced, and also on subsequent
>    uploads, as well as painful attention to detail with ensuring that you may
>    not let your install become unusable from installing software from the
>    Debian archive.
>    I'd be happy to answer questions in the interest of everyone being
>    friendly and mutual understanding.

Still up for this :)

>    Cheers, 
>     Paul
>    On Thursday, July 12, 2012 8:53:30 PM UTC-4, Rick Waldron wrote:
> 
>  Paul Tagliamonte, a Debian committer,  co-works at the Bocoup loft (and works
> with me on Johnny-Five), I will hit him up tomorrow and see what he thinks 
> about
>                                      this.
> 
>      -Rick
> 
>      On Thursday, July 12, 2012 at 8:37 PM, Marak Squires wrote:
> 
>        I'm new to this sort of edict.
>        After reading [1]http://bugs.debian.org/614907, is saying "fuck you"
>        an appropriate response? Serious question.
>        My favorite part, is when the debian developers start accusing each
>        other of clandestinely working with the node core team to "run crying
>        to the techinical commmitte".
>        Either way, I'm not the maintainer of the node's Debian package. nor
>        do I use Debian. The only experience I've had around this issue is the
>        100 or so support cases I've had to deal with of people installing
>        Node from a linux package manager, only to have it be out of date,
>        then experiencing conflicting installation issues for users who try to
>        build latest from source.
>        On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Carl F�rstenberg
>        <[2][email protected]> wrote:
> 
>          ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>          From: Don Armstrong <[3][email protected]>
>          Date: Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:59 PM
>          Subject: [CTTE #614907] Resolution of node/nodejs conflict
>          To: [4][email protected]
> 
>          === Resolution ===
>          The Technical Committee reaffirms the importance of preventing
>          namespace
>          collisions for programs in the distribution, while recognizing that
>          compatibility with upstreams and with previous Debian releases is
>          also
>          important and that sometimes an imperfect balance must be struck
>          between
>          these three goals.
> 
>          The Committee therefore resolves that:
> 
>          1. The nodejs package shall be changed to provide /usr/bin/nodejs,
>          not
>             /usr/bin/node.  The package shall declare a Breaks: relationship
>          with any
>             packages in Debian that reference /usr/bin/node.
>          2. The nodejs source package shall also provide a nodejs-legacy
>          binary
>             package at Priority: extra that contains /usr/bin/node as a
>          symlink to
>             /usr/bin/nodejs.  No package in the archive may depend on or
>          recommend
>             the nodejs-legacy package, which is provided solely for upstream
>             compatibility.  This package shall also declare a Conflicts:
>          relationship
>             with the node package.
>          3. The node source package shall rename its binary to
>          /usr/sbin/ax25-node,
>             and its binary package to ax25-node.
>          4. The node source package shall continue to build a transitional
>          'node'
>             binary package for compatibility with deployed Debian
>          installations,
>             which provides /usr/sbin/node as a symlink to
>          /usr/sbin/ax25-node.  This
>             package shall declare a reciprocal Conflicts: relationship with
>          the
>             nodejs-legacy package.  Other packages may reference the 'node'
>          package
>             as a dependency or recommendation, but are encouraged to
>          transition to
>             'ax25-node'.
>          5. The maintainers of these packages are required to implement the
>          above
>             changes immediately in unstable.  Failing that, the Technical
>          Committee
>             reserves the right to NMU to implement these changes.
>          6. Once the above changes are implemented, the packages shall be
>          considered
>             suitable for release with respect to the Debian policy on
>          conflicting
>             packages.
> 
>          === End Resolution ===
> 
>          Please see [5]http://bugs.debian.org/614907 for the background and
>          discussion.
> 
>          Don Armstrong
> 
>          --
>          I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended
>          up where I needed to be.
>           -- Douglas Adams _The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul_
> 
>          [6]http://www.donarmstrong.com              [7]http://rzlab.ucr.edu
> 
>          --
>          Carl F�rstenberg
> 
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> References
> 
>    Visible links
>    1. http://bugs.debian.org/614907
>    2. mailto:[email protected]
>    3. mailto:[email protected]
>    4. mailto:[email protected]
>    5. http://bugs.debian.org/614907
>    6. http://www.donarmstrong.com/
>    7. http://rzlab.ucr.edu/
>    8. http://jobs.nodejs.org/
>    9. https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
>   10. mailto:[email protected]
>   11. mailto:nodejs%[email protected]
>   12. http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en
>   13. http://jobs.nodejs.org/
>   14. https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
>   15. mailto:[email protected]
>   16. mailto:nodejs%[email protected]
>   17. http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en
>   18. http://jobs.nodejs.org/
>   19. https://github.com/joyent/node/wiki/Mailing-List-Posting-Guidelines
>   20. http://groups.google.com/group/nodejs?hl=en?hl=en

-- 
 .''`.  Paul Tagliamonte <[email protected]>
: :'  : Proud Debian Developer
`. `'`  4096R / 8F04 9AD8 2C92 066C 7352  D28A 7B58 5B30 807C 2A87
 `-     http://people.debian.org/~paultag

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