Ah, you know actually this is one thing I did fix already because I was working on some contributions for ZynAddSubFX and reinstalling it kept making the icon huge again. What I did was just ignore icons that lie about their size.
On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 6:00 PM J. Liles <[email protected]> wrote: > It is an issue when you treat it as a matter of blame and justification > for forks and whatnot. I'm 95% sure this is just an oversight on > ZynAddSubFX's part (personally, I used ImageMagick to rescale the icon once > forgot about it). Should all software have special code to deal with 32x32 > pixel icons which are actually 800x800 pixels? I dunno. Seems debatable to > me. > > On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 5:57 PM Filipe Coelho <[email protected]> wrote: > >> If there is, I dont recall at the moment. >> >> I remember seeing the issue on zynaddsubfx and went just to fix it >> without checking how many others had it. >> >> It might be worth fixing just so it does not happen again. It is a large >> icon on zyn side yes, but scaling it should not be an issue either. >> >> On 04/01/21 01:52, J. Liles wrote: >> >> I'll see about unblocking you. I had to report your behavior to github >> after you posted some particularly offensive remarks on the issue tracker. >> >> The icon size thing is a ZynAddSubFX bug AFIAK. I've not encountered >> another client that had a stupidly large icon like that. Are there others? >> >> On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 5:50 PM Filipe Coelho <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> So actions do speak louder than words. >>> >>> I wanted to submit back some changes, but am somehow blocked from >>> participating on the github project completely, so a PR fails. >>> >>> Would be nice to get along. >>> >>> I went ahead with an alternative account to submit the first change. >>> See it at https://github.com/original-male/non/pull/294 >>> >>> Should be pretty straight forward. >>> It adds a new icon size possible for the GUI icons, and sets resolution >>> of the GUI icon so that FLTK/NTK can take care to scale it nicely. >>> Before a few icons would appear incorrectly or not at all. >>> >>> Thanks >>> On 04/01/21 00:28, Filipe Coelho wrote: >>> >>> On 03/01/21 23:58, J. Liles wrote: >>> >>> Too much to respond to here. I really find your messages confusing >>> Fillipe, because again there's such a stark difference between your actions >>> and your words. >>> >>> I am sorry for that, I dont mean it. Looking at one-self is sometimes >>> the hardest. >>> >>> >>> I believe that part of the problem may be that you are reading some kind >>> of emotional/constitutional subtext into simple factual statements like "X >>> is out of the scope of this project and furthermore X can be implemented >>> easily as a separate client/script/whatever than there is therefore no need >>> for X to be incorporated into the project." To me, this is a factual >>> statement about technological realities, informed by Unix philosophy and >>> general logic. To you, it seems, this is being interpreted as "Male is mean >>> and hates me and refuses to listen to reason." >>> >>> If you call people names and insult them, that is enough for me to think >>> you are completely opposed to an idea. >>> I do not have access to the github tickets, so cant quote from them. But >>> here is from an email you sent last year: >>> >>> > You're cowards without the balls to contribute back to a project that >>> benefited you greatly. You should be ashamed of yourselves. With friends >>> like these, who needs enemies? Were you hoping that I died from the virus, >>> you fucking bastards? >>> >>> This is not a one-off thing, abuse was common-place everytime we >>> suggested anything you deemed a bit more exotic. >>> >>> >>> That is a synthetic example, but I'll take a real one from your message >>> below: >>> >>> Why would I make my application dependent on NSM? >>> I want my applications to be cross-platform, and work for everyone, >>> something you are against. >>> (At least it is what I understand from >>> https://non.tuxfamily.org/wiki/FAQ, forgive me if I am making the wrong >>> assumption here) >>> >>> Here is the text you're referring to: >>> Why don't you provide OS X or Windows binaries? >>> >>> Unlike, ahem, some other DAW projects, the direction of Non is not >>> driven by financial interests. Time and money spent aquiring[sic] the >>> special hardware and software to develop on closed platforms would, in my >>> humble opinion, be better spent on actually developing Non. >>> >>> You interpreted this statement as "male is against software being cross >>> platform and working for everyone." This is of course completely false. The >>> reality is that male doesn't run Mac OS or Windows and it would literally >>> be insane for him to spend thousands of dollars of his own time and money >>> to acquire a Mac or Windows machine and develop ports for them. If someone >>> else runs Mac OS or Windows and wants to port my software there, test it, >>> and send me patches, I would be happy to apply them. But to insist that I >>> support platforms I do not myself use or have access to is to make an >>> unreasonable demand of me. Can you see the truth in what I'm saying? Is >>> this a cultural/language barrier thing? If I called you a meanie for not >>> porting Carla to the Amiga for me, would you feel I was being reasonable? >>> >>> Well, if you read what I wrote more clearly, you would see the context. >>> >>> You wrote: >>> > Until I see ... [your] GUI renamed to something else and made >>> dependent on NSM rather than attempting to supplant it >>> >>> I commented that this is not possible for Carla, because you do not have >>> interest for cross-platform but I do. >>> So I cannot make Carla dependent on NSM because of that. >>> >>> >>> But nevertheless, if you want to bury the hatchet and cooperate, I'm all >>> for it. If there are patches to make NSMD work on Windows or Mac (although >>> I can't see why it wouldn't already work) then send 'em on over. If there >>> are patches to document or improve the GUI API, send those too. If you have >>> suggestions for how NSM could be packaged in a way that distros would >>> accept in order that you could use it as a dependency, well I'm all ears >>> man! A little help would be very much welcome. >>> >>> I can go through the changes made in the new repo and submit PRs, but I >>> am lacking in time due to 15 of January being tagged as "release day" and >>> still having a few things not quite ready. >>> >>> Let's start with something small. Which I just tried, but pull request >>> fails. Did you block me? >>> >>> See >>> https://github.com/original-male/non/compare/master...falkTX:imported-fixes-pt1?expand=1 >>> and you can do the PR yourself. >>> >>> Is this a good first step? >>> >>> >>> But if you come at me with some kitchen sink/bloat stuff, don't be >>> surprised if I ask for some justification (i.e. "there is literally no >>> better way to do this than to add it to NSM"). That is not unreasonable. >>> That is not done out of ill-will. It is simply done out of a detached, >>> professional interest in maintaining quality and suitability. >>> >>> That is quite reasonable, and I am all for it. >>> >>> The main thing we keep asking is to stop the personal attacks and >>> occasional verbal abuse. >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 3:25 PM Filipe Coelho <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> On 03/01/21 22:34, J. Liles wrote: >>>> >>>> Fillipe, you keep saying this "we the community" stuff. Who elected you >>>> as the spokesperson for the community? That's part of your problem. You >>>> think you're the self appointed king/dictator of Linux audio. >>>> >>>> I am not speaking for the community, nor I am leading anything. I am >>>> rather bad at this. >>>> >>>> When I wrote in my mail here about the "we community" I speak about >>>> what I know of all the conversations on IRC, email and forum threads. >>>> So by community, I have to speak about the still sorta minority of >>>> developers that still care about standalones and session management. >>>> We all came into an agreement after seeing some of your reactions prior >>>> to the fork and reveal. >>>> >>>> I am just the one talking here because the others are all tired of all >>>> this drama, and just gave up trying to reason with you. >>>> >>>> >>>> Did it ever occur to you that perhaps it is *you* who are difficult to >>>> deal with? >>>> >>>> Yes, I know this from experience that I can be very hard to work with. >>>> Tend to be perfectionist, and caring about all the little details, >>>> often too negative. >>>> Often caring about the little details more than the bigger ones. >>>> >>>> It is something I am trying to improve. >>>> >>>> Maybe for you, try to be less accusatory? >>>> >>>> >>>> There are many ways that *I* can think of that any reasonable, >>>> technical goals of yours, mine and anyone else's regarding NSM could be >>>> resolved. But please keep a little perspective here. >>>> >>>> Sure, and disagreement is expected. >>>> >>>> >>>> You were not smart enough to invent NSM, and yet you think you're smart >>>> enough to improve when the person who was smart enough to invent it >>>> disagrees with your "approach". >>>> >>>> You were smart to invest NSM and had time dedicate for it, I am >>>> grateful for that, thank you. >>>> >>>> Please be reasonable as well. >>>> I did not invest LASH, or LADISH, or JACK, or Qt, or many other things. >>>> I dont see how that is an argument for anything.. >>>> >>>> NSM as in protocol, does not really need change. jackpatch has a >>>> user-experience problem, but that might be unrelated to NSM itself. >>>> >>>> The things I would like to improve are in regards of user experience, >>>> the protocol can stay intact. >>>> But please understand, when you ignore or even attack back request to >>>> make the experience better for new users, how are we supposed to act? >>>> >>>> Nils went a step ahead and started his own GUI, yet you attack him by >>>> not having contributing nothing of value. >>>> So we are useless because we do not send patches for behaviour you >>>> clearly do not want (like an export option in the SM GUI), and yet if we go >>>> to do our thing while still respecting the NSM protocol we are still >>>> treated like shit. >>>> How does that many any sense?? >>>> >>>> (I would love to link to the issue/discussion in question here >>>> regarding export option, but you removed github tickets) >>>> >>>> >>>> I say your approach, but all you and your gang ever really came to me >>>> with were demands that I implement things I have no and see no use for. If >>>> you had a little skill in communication and a little humility and a less >>>> blatant desire to bring everything good and valuable in Linux audio under >>>> your anime umbrella, then you could have easily gotten anything reasonable >>>> that you wanted. Reasonable being the key word here. You can't go around >>>> demanding people work for free to implement your poorly thought out and >>>> unjustified whims. >>>> >>>> An export/import option is not unreasonable, in my opinion (and several >>>> others on the same github topic too). >>>> >>>> You do not have a use for it, okay. So what is so bad if someone else >>>> tries to do it? >>>> When we open an issue/ticket on github, it is not with the expectation >>>> that you do everything. >>>> Sometimes tickets are just places for discussion. >>>> >>>> Github tickets are not demands. >>>> >>>> >>>> You have publicly slandered me, you have called my software malware, >>>> etc. so don't pretend to be so innocent. >>>> >>>> I do not recall ever saying such things, but I apologize. I did not >>>> mean those things, and clearly do not think that. >>>> >>>> Why would I willingly be packaging and using malware myself? That >>>> doesnt make sense.. >>>> >>>> Again, I am sorry, I do not mean or meant to offend you in any way. >>>> Maybe some rushed comment when conversation got heated? >>>> In any case, I apologize for that. >>>> >>>> >>>> You call my remarks "weird", and yet you're the one who names all his >>>> programs after women (is that not "weird"?) >>>> >>>> Oh that haha. >>>> >>>> I guess it is just a little bias here. The reason for the C names is >>>> just a cheap idea copy of G*, K*, Q* names that other applications use. >>>> Me being 11=12 years younger when I gave those names thought it would >>>> be funny to have a suite of tools starting with C, because it seems similar >>>> to Q for the use of the Qt toolkit. >>>> >>>> I am not a native english speaker, coming up with good names is hard >>>> for me. >>>> So to remove bias, here are some other projects created by me that do >>>> not have such names. >>>> >>>> https://github.com/falkTX/Chibi (has C name, but not related to a >>>> girl/woman) >>>> https://github.com/falkTX/JackAss >>>> https://github.com/falkTX/Hylia >>>> https://github.com/falkTX/FluidPlug >>>> https://github.com/falkTX/nooice >>>> https://github.com/falkTX/los (fork of existing project, play-on-words >>>> alike libre/openoffice) >>>> https://github.com/DISTRHO/DPF >>>> https://github.com/DISTRHO/DISTRHO-Ports >>>> https://github.com/DISTRHO/DIE-Plugins >>>> https://github.com/DISTRHO/Kars >>>> https://github.com/DISTRHO/ProM >>>> >>>> So perhaps there are more projects made without the C woman than you >>>> realize. :) >>>> >>>> >>>> Again, you can say whatever lies you want, but the proof of the pudding >>>> is in the eating. >>>> >>>> Please tell me any more "lies" you see. I like to be transparent, I am >>>> trying to answer in truth to anything you might deem as a lie here. >>>> >>>> Other might see here it is actually the other way around. >>>> >>>> >>>> Until I see patches for NSM, documentation patches documenting the GUI >>>> API and your (python or whatever) GUI renamed to something else and made >>>> dependent on NSM rather than attempting to supplant it, then I and everyone >>>> else will know what the truth of the matter really is and just how empty >>>> your words are. >>>> >>>> Why would I make my application dependent on NSM? >>>> I want my applications to be cross-platform, and work for everyone, >>>> something you are against. >>>> (At least it is what I understand from >>>> https://non.tuxfamily.org/wiki/FAQ, forgive me if I am making the >>>> wrong assumption here) >>>> >>>> Carla does not intend to supplant anything, at maximum we could say >>>> making jack-rack obsolete. >>>> I do not see a need to change the name, but it is not totally out of >>>> the question. >>>> If you promise to be nicer back to me, I am willing to make that rename >>>> without a second though. Do you have any suggestions for a name? (and >>>> please be civil) >>>> >>>> Also, not sure why you ask me personally to submit patches, when you >>>> initially mentioned me as speaking for the "community". >>>> So shouldnt the community be the one submitting patches? >>>> >>>> There are a few things that Nils submitted, as seen in >>>> https://github.com/original-male/non/pulls?q=is%3Apr+author%3Adiovudau >>>> I did a few changes/fixes on the new-session-manager repo, as I felt >>>> welcome there and that I could actually make a change. >>>> See >>>> https://github.com/linuxaudio/new-session-manager/commits?author=falktx >>>> for the list, it is not much, but it is also not nothing. >>>> Should I submit these back to the NON repo? Will they be accepted them >>>> without me being shouted at? >>>> >>>> >>>> Should I just accept every dumb idea and half-assed patch without >>>> question? Is asking someone to explain themselves the action of a tyrant? >>>> Come on. >>>> >>>> You are fine to refuse any changes of course, but also please >>>> understand that if many changes get rejected, devs will start considering a >>>> fork as a necessity. >>>> >>>> >>>> You're just trying to capitalize on the fact that I don't show my >>>> boyish face on a github avatar or at LAC and can therefore be painted as >>>> inhuman. >>>> >>>> Who cares about the avatar? I do not like my own face, it is just there >>>> because I am too lazy now to change. >>>> I looks "boyish" I guess because it is just an old pic, I do not like >>>> to take pictures so those I have are usually old. >>>> >>>> You surely are human, your nickname is even original-male on github, >>>> dont know where that nonsense comes from. >>>> Dont hate yourself, or myself please. I am trying to be as peaceful and >>>> nice here as I can, to a point where I am really not sure what else to do. >>>> It is sad that I feel the need to write "please be civil" to every single >>>> comment that I know can provide a "gotcha" reply. >>>> >>>> Let's all be friendly please? >>>> >>>> >>>> The most disgusting thing about the whole affair is that you pretend to >>>> be friendly. I don't need friends like you, Fillipe. I'd rather surround >>>> myself with vipers. >>>> >>>> And I am sorry you feel that way. >>>> >>>> There are absolutely no hard feelings from my side, hope there is a way >>>> to make it that from your side too. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 1:38 PM Filipe Coelho <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 2021-01-03 20:21, J. Liles wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Actions speak louder than words, Fillipe. >>>>> >>>>> Well yes, I am totally with you on that. >>>>> >>>>> In acts of rage we do thinks that we later regret. 2020 has been a >>>>> lousy year for most people. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If you really had honor, skill, gratitude, and goodwill, then you >>>>> would contribute back to the project which you have benefited from, rather >>>>> than attempting to co-opt it in order to win the empty accolades of Linux >>>>> Audio Conference attendees and pad your resume with the accomplishments of >>>>> others. >>>>> >>>>> I really do not appreciate the personal attacks, I thought we were >>>>> past this. >>>>> >>>>> But since you mention it, I can see where you come from with some of >>>>> these, but feel it is totally misguided. >>>>> I have not put any non-personal projects on my own CV, you can see it >>>>> for yourself at https://falktx.com/#cv >>>>> And you can even see the commit history for the CV >>>>> https://github.com/falkTX/falktx-web/commits/master/cv >>>>> >>>>> I did take over the JACK project a bit too early, while I was still >>>>> too deep with some life issues and between jobs, I feel guilty of that. >>>>> It took way too long from taking JACK to actually make a proper >>>>> release, and then come true to the promises to revive the win/mac >>>>> situation. >>>>> I have purposefully reduced my working hours just to have some time to >>>>> dedicate per week to open-source projects. Now even at only 3 days per >>>>> week. >>>>> >>>>> So forgive me if I feel a little bit personally attacked here. I never >>>>> called you names or said swear words to you. >>>>> >>>>> You know very well that we tried to have co-operation with you in the >>>>> NSM project. But all we got was friction, sometimes even verbal abuse. >>>>> Maybe that is just how you think it should be done, but most of the >>>>> community does not think the same way. >>>>> There was more than 1 developer that intentionally did not implement >>>>> NSM support because they saw how hard it was to get anything done and >>>>> pushed for in NSM. >>>>> >>>>> I tried to remain neutral all this time, promoting NSM all I could. >>>>> The KXStudio repositories had NSM stuff up to date as much as >>>>> possible, I implemented NSM in my own tools and promoted it as well within >>>>> developers. >>>>> As an example, in the Sonoj 2019 talk about JACK, I publicly mention >>>>> that we need to push for NSM >>>>> >>>>> https://media.ccc.de/v/sonoj2019-1902-jack-past-present-future >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The only reason you didn't change the name of NSM to a pandering sexy >>>>> feminine name is that you wanted to keep the acronym intact to maximize >>>>> the >>>>> disruptive effect on me and my community of users and thwart efforts to >>>>> get >>>>> NSM included in Debian. >>>>> >>>>> Ignoring the weird remarks about sexism.. it is obvious why the NSM >>>>> name was kept. >>>>> Because we, in the community, truly believe in NSM to be a good spec >>>>> and the way to go forward in regards to session management. >>>>> >>>>> We want to push it forward and see it used a lot more, there were just >>>>> too many issues when dealing with its maintainer, of course you. >>>>> Make no mistake, one of the big reasons NON/NSM is not in >>>>> Debian/Ubuntu is because of your actions and how you behave(d). >>>>> >>>>> I do not mean this as any kind of personal attack, just wish you would >>>>> be able to see this really. >>>>> >>>>> It is because we, the community, really like NSM and believe in it, >>>>> that we went with a fork, as the last resort. >>>>> We really appreciate all the work you put on it, and for the rest of >>>>> the NON suite too. >>>>> But as a maintainer, you were jeopardizing the project with your >>>>> behaviour. >>>>> >>>>> Nils has some relevant things he said not a long while ago, see >>>>> https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=21772&p=121745#p121745 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> People can change though, so if you ever decide to give up this >>>>> campaign of deceit and disruption, then I'll happily accept from you any >>>>> useful and appropriate patches you care to offer. >>>>> >>>>> I would say the same, for the first part. >>>>> >>>>> Some of the things are you saying are misguided, but understandable >>>>> that you feel hurt. >>>>> We hope you change to drop the personal attacks. >>>>> >>>>> I am sorry the situation got to this point. >>>>> >>>>> We love you, and your projects as well, specially NSM. >>>>> Really, please take care. >>>>> >>>>> Wish you all the best. >>>>> >>>>> Filipe Coelho >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jan 3, 2021, 10:49 AM Filipe Coelho <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 2021-01-03 17:56, Richard wrote: >>>>>> > On Sun, 3 Jan 2021 15:40:17 +0100 >>>>>> > Fredrik Vestermark <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> Hi, >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> I just wanted to reach out with a big thank you to J. Liles for >>>>>> your >>>>>> >> hard work on developing Non and publishing it under an open source >>>>>> >> license. Thank you to everybody else involved too, of course! >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> As a community, we often forget that developing and maintaining >>>>>> free >>>>>> >> software costs a lot of time and nerves. If you too feel like a >>>>>> >> GitHub star is not enough appreciation for Non, please consider a >>>>>> >> donation via PayPal to show some ♥ and support Liles great work: >>>>>> >> https://non.tuxfamily.org/wiki/Donations >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Best regards and a happy new year, >>>>>> >> Fredrik >>>>>> > Thank you Frederik for reminding me about the "Donations" page. >>>>>> > Thank you too to Aaron Duerksen for making such a complete bug >>>>>> report >>>>>> > on that segfault when removing a control. It has annoyed me for >>>>>> ages, >>>>>> > most recently yesterday, but I couldn't have done as good a job as >>>>>> you >>>>>> > in tracking down the issue. >>>>>> > And of course, thank you Jonathan for providing us with such a >>>>>> capable >>>>>> > suite of programs for exploring the worlds of sound processing and >>>>>> > making music. I'm an amateur at both, but boy, what fun it is. I >>>>>> look >>>>>> > forward to the exciting developments and possible improvements which >>>>>> > you may have time to share with us in the near future. >>>>>> >>>>>> +1 >>>>>> >>>>>> We all appreciate your efforts, even if there are things we disagree >>>>>> with. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you. And happy new year to everyone by the way. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>
