Irfan, Thank you for putting up with my questions. I can now devote more time to this topic, and before we bring our little dialogue to an end, I hope you will be patient with me on a few more points.
First, let me just repeat my request for more information about Judgment Day and the Last Day -- oh, and something called Resurrection Day, too. Please point me to the verse in the Quran (or hadith) where these terms are defined. Possibly you have access to a "concordance", in which you can quickly and easily look this up. (By the way, the concept of a Last Day is theologically interesting, because if there really is a day that is succeeded by no subsequent day, that would mean the end of time, which implies the end of God, who needs time to exist and have thoughts. You probably know about December 23, 2012 in this context.) I am approaching my one-year anniversary of becoming a Muslim, which occurred on January 28, 2008. Unfortunately, the more I learn about Islam, the less I like it. Let me give you an example or two of what I mean, and get your opinion as someone who is knowledgeable about Islam, and maybe even believes and practices it. Take a look at Sahih Muslim, book 8, chapters 27-28, found here: http://www.iiu.edu.my/deed/hadith/muslim/008_smt.html What do you make of this? I was puzzled at first by the opening statement that "One suckling or two do not make (marriage) unlawful." What do baby pigs have to do with the legality of a marriage? But in reading further, this "suckling" seems to mean sucking the breast of a woman, by either a grown woman or a grown man. I do not know whether milk must be drawn for such a sucking to qualify as a suckling, or how to determine when one suckling ends and another begins. This whole business of suckling-counting sounds like a strange jahiliyah folkway that Islam was supposed to do away with. Yet Muhammad seems to be going along with it. Here's another example of things that make you go "Huh?": http://www.iiu.edu.my/deed/hadith/bukhari/004_sbt.html It portrays Muhammad -- insultingly, in my opinion -- as suffering from what today we would call obsessive-compulsive disorder. And in describing the proper way to do wudu, he says (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 4, Number 162) "Whoever performs ablution should clean his nose with water by putting the water in it and then blowing it out, and whoever cleans his private parts with stones should do it with an odd number of stones." Well, Muhammad lived in a world without paper hankies or toilet paper, so he had to make do with water and stones. We can be understanding of that. But what is this about "an odd number"? What kind of numerological nonsense is that? Another jahiliya superstition? This all seems weird, but it is Sunnah, so we have to do our best to follow it, under the slogan WWMD, because he is our perfect role model (uswa-hasana, al-insan al-kamil). So I guess it is a mark of piety -- like a zebibah on the forehead -- to wipe an odd number of times after defecating. Let me ask you your personal opinion about all this. Does it seem as bizarro to you as it does to me? Do you try follow all the hadiths, or do you just ignore the crazy ones? Sincerely, Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY) ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Spahn To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 2:25 PM Subject: Re: "the Last Day" Irfan, When I saw the name "Irfan" in http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/01/AR2009010101932.html?hpid=topnews , knowing that you were off to an airport, I thought of you. It turned out to be someone else. Apparently, "Irfan" is both a forename (yours) and a surname (his). Once again, I thank you for your reply, although I notice that you merely assert that "Last Day" and "Day of Judgment" mean the same thing, without quoting where the Quran says so. So let me repeat my question: Where in the Quran are "Last Day" and "Day of Judgment" defined? If the Quran is complete, it will not just introduce some unexplained term. But here is something I discovered today that you might want to see: http://www.politicalislam.com/blog/refuting-counter-terrorism-dhimmitude/ It is a well written essay that summarizes Islam as follows: "Every Muslim, without exception, will tell you that the Koran is the perfect, complete, universal word of the only god, Allah. The Koran insists that Mohammed is the perfect model, pattern, of behavior for all Muslims. Mohammed's behavior is so important to Islam that it has a special name, Sunna. The Sunna is found in two texts, the Sira (Mohammed's sacred biography) and the Hadith (the sacred traditions of Mohammed). All of Islamic doctrine is based upon three texts: the Koran, the Sira, and the Hadith, the Trilogy." Except for the first four words, I expect that you will agree with all of this. And if the Quran contains undefined terms, you might disagree with the claim that it is "complete". Elsewhere in the essay, the author makes a creative comparison between Islam and a work of the Dutch graphic artist M. C. Escher (whose name, says Wikipedia, is pronounced "ESS-kher", not "ESH-er"). As you can read, the author argues -- as I think you do -- that we should learn about Islam not from second-hand sources, but from the founding texts, the Quran and Sunnah (= Hadith + Sira): "we need facts, Mohammed's facts, and not Islamic gossip." For the next few days I cannot devote time to Islam; work duty calls. Happy New Year, Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY) ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 12:14 AM Subject: RE: "the Last Day" Peace, Thanks for waiting. Kids have not gotten out of thier jet lag, and staying up with them is making me feel like I too have just arrived from overseas!! Again, briefly: Part of my trouble with the phrase "Peace be upon him" is the preposition "upon". The word in Arabic used in this phrase is A'alaa. It could be translated as TO, UPON, OVER, ON etc. UPON and ON are commonly used. (The word ALLAH in Arabic is a gender-neutral word with no HE or SHE, but we just can not avoid using HE in English for Allah). I think what is important is the CONCEPT and not the translation or wording. I will talk about it at the end. How could Muhammad ever tell us whether our prayers are helping him or hurting him? Islam or Islamic law is derived from two things: Quran and Sunnah(example or saying and doings of Muhammad). We know from Quran and Sunnah (many examples) that Praying for dead people does work. It may not in certain cases. For example, Once a polythiest or pluralist dies, we can not make any prayer for him/ her. Muhammad was stopped from making prayer for his deceased mother as she died as a non bbeliever. Similarly, prophet Noah was stopped from making prayer or asking for Mercy for his son who disobeyed and rebel against God's commands. Similarly, God told us to send Salam to Muhammad, alive or dead. He himself asked for it. We are urged to pray for each other all the time. We are urged to pray for our dead friends, relatives etc...all is found in Quran and Sunnah. I could send you references if you would like to. What a disorganized mess it is! We usually send a ooklet to non Muslims who would like to read Quran 'Introduction to Quran' by Syed Abul Ala Maududi. It is available in the internet: http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Articles/quran/introduction_to_the_study_of_the_quran.htm Quran was memeorized and written as soon as any verse was revealed. Muhammad used to hear it from his companions(reciting from memory) and recite to them. Verses were revealed according to situation and needs of the time that Muhammad or companions needed. It is written mostly in the same order except where and when Muhammad told to re order certain verses. Do not expect it to be like a Chemistry book for example...starting from basics to advance subjects. Additionally, Muslims used to recite whole Quran(whatever amount was revealed until that month) in the month of Ramadan each year. We still do. The first Quran written in book form is still availale in Istanbul. No word in original Arabic text has changed except font. Today there are 5 million Muslims, usually kids under 15 who have memorized it. Allah mentions/ claims in Quran that Allah will protect this book from changes. Anything coming from Quran, thus, is authentic to us. Other books may contain truth here and there, but no longer are dependable for salvation in the hereafter or forming a society in this world that goes by God's commands. Where in the Quran is this term defined? (Last day) And does this Last Day come before or after "the day of Judgment"? Last day and day of judgment are ued interchangeably. That is the day when Allah will see who lived according to His will and who defied it. The word DEEN in Arabic is not really RELIGION. It is LIFESTYLE. Islam is a DEEN/ Life Style. Hence, DoJ is also called Day of DEEN for on that day ALlah will tell us whose lifestyle was in His submission(Islam) and whose lifestyle was in denial of His commands. When in 9:29 Allah says that they do not believe in the last day, it means they reject day of judgment. They do not care for that day or do not even believe that such a day will happen. Sincerely, Irfan ========================================================================================================== Part of my trouble with the phrase "Peace be upon him" is the preposition "upon". The phrase is not "I hope he *has* peace" or "May he *have* peace". So I was wondering how peace being upon someone is different from someone having peace. I gather from what you say that there is no important distinction between these two wordings. You say that praying for a dead person can change his life. I have given some thought to how one might design a study to determine whether prayer is efficacious, and have concluded that it cannot be done, mostly because the input cannot be measured: briefly, you would have to prevent unauthorized people in subsequent centuries from praying. In the case we are considering -- praying for the dead Muhammad -- we cannot even measure the output: How could Muhammad ever tell us whether our prayers are helping him or hurting him? (Being incommunicado is one of the disadvantages of being imprisoned in Paradise.) I am a little regretful at having imposed upon you to spend so much time replying to me, so what I would like to do is formulate a question, now and then, that you could answer briefly, without spending too much time. (You suggest telephone conversation. Not a good idea; e-mail is much more convenient.) Here's an example of the kind of question I mean, with a paragraph or two of background information... I have been reading the Quran in sequence, although not diligently. What a disorganized mess it is! You would think that its purported author, a Supreme Being of the Universe, should be able to put his thoughts into better order. One problem is that he refers to items that, as far as I can tell, are left undefined. An example is found in what today is perhaps the most famous passage in the Quran, 9:29: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-Tawba_29 Let's not even consider its entire meaning, but focus on just one little item in it: "the Last Day". Where in the Quran is this term defined? (And does this Last Day come before or after "the day of Judgment" that you referred to? Come to think of it, that question answers itself: The Last Day comes *after* the day of Judgment; otherwise it wouldn't be Last.) I understand the Quran is supposed to be complete, so the answer to this question -- What is this 'Last Day'? -- must be contained somewhere in the Quran. So you will not need to spend much time answering this question; a sura:ayat number will suffice. Best wishes for the new year. Sincerely, Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY) --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Persons posting messages to not_honyaku assume all responsibility for their messages. The list owner does not review messages prior to posting, and accepts no responsibility for the content of messages posted. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
