Oh good - taking about the music! Of course, one thing to remember is that triple-time hornpipes almost all have (explicit or implicit) syncopation in some bars - often the even numbered ones. Some common time hornpipes did too - see Vickers' 'College Hornpipe, or The Lankinshire Hornpipe'.
A good example is 'All the night I Lay with ; Jockey in my Arms'. In bar 2, after the bar line ; the syllables '..ckey in..' are on a pair of repeated notes, but the second beat of the three in this bar falls on 'in'. There is a third beat on 'Arms'. In a 3/4 + 6/8 guajira rhythm, the second beat of the bar would be on 'my', which, as it's usually played, is actually the weakest beat of the lot. In a lot of these tunes (see John Offord's 'John of the Green, the Cheshire way' for many early examples) the rhythmic pattern shifts between strains. Presumably the steps changed too. It seems that syncopation was going out of fashion later in the century, hence Vickers' confusion?? John -----Original Message----- From: Matt Seattle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 07 July 2008 19:25 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Rusty Gulley Thanks for that Colin I replied personally to Anthony and we have had a friendly exchange about titles and metres. I stick absolutely to my interpretation that these 3 tunes are in 3/4 even though all but one of Vickers' triple-time hornpipes have the 6/8 signature and mixed note groupings, if I recall correctly. The weight of evidence from elsewhere is overwhelming that these tunes are in 3/4 and not a mixture. Try Burns' lyrics to Dusty Miller and Risty Gulley (Wee Willie Grey) in mixed rhythm and you will be singing with the emPHASis on the wrong sylLABle. I also accept that everyone who wishes can play these tunes in mixed rhythm if they wish, and it sounds good, but I feel it is not historically justified. It seems a very small point to have a disagreement over; you will recall I cheerfully provided a mixed rhythm accompaniment for you at the Chantry launch party, but in the role of editing I had to go with what I felt was intended in a partially literate MS, and I fully admitted in my Introduction that there is a very fine line between over- and under-correction. Anthony provided other examples of mixed rhythms in continental Europe. I am familiar with the Iberian / Latin-American predilection for these rhythms, which in flamenco is very sophisticated, with the 3/4 - 6/8 cycle starting at different points in the different forms (toqués). I am all for experiment and innovation and cross-fertilisation - we would be nowhere without these; the issue here is different, and if we disagree I am sure we can still smile at each other across the divide. Best wishes Matt To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
